Any advice on downsizing a drumset?

[Leo_Gnardo]

Recently added another dynamic on the batter side of the kick pointed at the contact area and obliquely picking up the bottom of the snare.

I was gonna say ... with just a front mic on a closed front head, mum mum moooommmm, there's your kick. Yes very wise to get a mic on the beater hit point.

NickC, phase "theoretically" would be flipped, if the mics are phase-agreed. Same kind of mic, of course. Different, well some manufacturers are out of phase with others. Go figure. There's always the mis wired mic cable to foil anybody's theorizing too. Of course some listening whilst flipping the phase button will reveal the more correct "ear-friendly" solution. (Watched Eric Johnson soundcheck his guitar rig one day, 2.5 hours of phase-flippin' and listenin'. OY! But when it was all done, I'm sure Eric was pleased with what he heard standing at his stage mark. Underscores the old "when you THINK you sound good, you play good." And hardly anyone wouldn't say Eric J sounds good, right? )

[quote = "NickC"] Those guys can play so fast, and they're hidden behind so much apparatus, how would you know they didn't hit a particular drum? [/quote]

I was just daydreaming BUT I'm sure someone will come up with a method.

Was riffing on what FOH mixer Mark Deadman did many years ago with the Tom Petty band. Mark was getting um, nonplussed I suppose, with the keyboard player adding more & more outputs to his rig = inputs to the FOH. So Mark made a deal. Each extra channel would pay him $10 a show bonus. For a few weeks he was making about an extra grand a week, then the tour manager finally wised up. From then on, keyboards came "pre mixed" from stage on a pair of channels. Plus Leslie of course. Ka-ching! For a while, anyway.

[ER]

Hey Nick-

I don't flip the phase, the three main mics are pretty far out, kind of taking a snapshot of the whole kit, I pan the condensers about 3/4 left and right and have the kick mics centered. The batter mic is kind of at an angle, under the snare but angled to pick up the bass drum batter contact point. As long as the the diaphrams aren't in a head on piston movement type of position it doesn't seem to have any phase issues.

I usually just eyeball it or measure the two condensers with a pair of drumsticks to make sure their the same distance from the center of the snare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyy55ALu18Y

lots of decent examples on youtube.

Learned a lot from this video too; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mrNjz_U0ZM

Here's glyn johns method with a bop kit with 16" bass drum! Doesn't sound to bad for a little kit; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUtkgV93oOI

[Structo]

Thanks for the tips Leo-

A friend of mine used to do that coin trick, I'd forgotten about that. May add a bit more definition to the 26".

I've had the best luck with a Glyn Johns mic technique so far: two overhead condensers (one directly above the snare and another over the right shoulder pointed at the snare) and a dynamic on the kick out about 14" just where the air stops moving. Everything out about 36-40" from the center of the snare to deal with any phase issues. Recently added another dynamic on the batter side of the kick pointed at the contact area and obliquely picking up the bottom of the snare.

Stripped everything down to snare bass tom floor ride hats and single 18" crash. I'll try some recording today and see if I don't miss the other stuff to badly.

That's pretty much how we used to do it.
Mackie 24 channel board and four Crown power amps to the EV mains.

[Leo_Gnardo]

That's pretty much how we used to do it.
Mackie 24 channel board and four Crown power amps to the EV mains.

What, no 19 mics on the kit? "Press conference" 3 in the kick?

KILLS me when modern (30 yrs ago to now) acts wind up multimiking the kick. So many times I've gotten excellent results with just one, and seen/heard others do similar. The classic mics are just fine but I had to do a tour with a limited mic selection and it was a lowly PE54 (silver '57) that won the day for tone. All by itself.

For blues & blues/rock acts, done well with 1 kick mic & a pair of overheads. Surprisingly an XY pair of Senny 421's sounded a treat and went to recording also with a realistic tone & stereo pan. In the kick, a 421 also, but sometimes something a bit unexpected: Shure SM54 and AKG D140 have served me well. Surprising amount of low bass on the tiny ball-&-stick D140.

Very loud bands, or those that just insist on it, get the one mic per drum treatment, so I can get the gain-before-feedback up due to proximity. Scarcely ever had to resort to gates except for the kick.

Here's how not to do it:

Goofy recording session had 7 mics on the kick. Some "star" engineer had to have his way. Spent 2 days at a super expensive studio (Hit Factory) just getting a kick sound. Brand new room with the world's largest Neve and a disaster of a patch bay. Couldn't get any volume into the musicians' headphones even with 300W/ch Haflers driving 'em which should have carbonized 'em never mind deafen the listener. Rhythm section was Anton Fig and Will Lee. Having them sit around waiting to get things fixed for 6 days cost a fortune too. I still have a picture in my mind of poor Anton trying to hear thru his cans while slapping the kit. Scrubbed the session after 6 days of faffing, left me about as depressed as I've ever been. Good thing it was someone else's money, and I was "just" guitar/rig tech.

Not to knock ER's 2 mics on kick. When there's a closed drum, no hole in the non beaten skin, you have to mic the beater side to get some presence. No question of that.

[LeftyStrat]

Well all you really need is a bass drum and a snare. You don't even need a stool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3fhF7VuFS4



And in a bind, you don't even need the snare:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJo5ieZeXcg

[Firestorm]

Just record it however and hire Bob Clearmountain to mix it.

[drew]

Well all you really need is a bass drum and a snare. You don't even need a stool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3fhF7VuFS4

Check out Ben Riley making do with bass drum, a snare, a high hat, and a cymbal here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QAYpuTLhVk Apparently the airline lost his real kit. Even takes a solo!

[LeftyStrat]

Check out Ben Riley making do with bass drum, a snare, a high hat, and a cymbal here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QAYpuTLhVk Apparently the airline lost his real kit. Even takes a solo!

Nice!

[Leo_Gnardo]

Move aside Peart, Palmer, Weckl, Bruford, etc. Yer all pikers!

Nobody beats (Reverend) Dr. Mark Temperato for UP sizing a kit. Listening to the interview on CBC. 813 piece kit. Praise the Lord & pass him another pair of sticks. Don't try this at home.

http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/features/ ... ld-record/

Hey this guy stole my haircut!

[Structo]

[img:600:334]http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/biggest%2 ... rge%29.jpg[/img]

Holy Crap!

No way am I helping that guy setup.

[ER]

A lot of those drums look like they do the same thing. Maybe they're counting pieces like they do in most of the craigslist adds I see, they certainly are using the same set-up techniques as most craigslist drumsets.

"Hey honey I'm starting a church, so get off my case about all my guitars and amps..."

This is about as big a kit can get and remain ergonomically and musically justifiable (provided you have the talent to utilize it of course);
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UZGF-L-XOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WcOxEWcum8
Of course all kinds of strange things can happen if you spend any significant time hanging around Frank Zappa...

If you are playing pitch notes I can see adding this many drums. Personally I find liberation from notes my favorite part about drumming.

[Leo_Gnardo]

"Hey honey I'm starting a church, so get off my case about all my guitars and amps..."

And drums and things. All tax-free and supported by tax deductible donations so party on pastor! Got a case of GAS that's for sure.

This is about as big a kit can get and remain ergonomically and musically justifiable (provided you have the talent to utilize it of course)

Reverend Dr. says he can reach most of them. Maybe he is Elastic Man. Believe in miracles... or stretch the truth. Pun very intended.

Of course all kinds of strange things can happen if you spend any significant time hanging around Frank Zappa...

Did get close one day but he was busy. No hang out. OTOH I've been listening since Uncle Meat (highly recommended!) so I got a twisty brain. FVZ was a genius! Top flite musos in his bands too.

If you are playing pitch notes I can see adding this many drums. Personally I find liberation from notes my favorite part about drumming.

Rev. Dr. must need those quarter tone scales or maybe into Harry Partch tuning, 43 notes per octave. I think he's got bats in his bell tree. Hey it's all for fun, what the heck. Could be up to much much worse.

Hey the Allman Bros. used to have tympani. With those you can bend notes too. Wonder if the Rev. Dr. has those too.

Minimized kit = clarity through simplicity. As in audio circuits. Works for me! I'm all for it.

[Structo]

Asking a drummer to downsize his kit is like asking a guitar player to own only one guitar.

Or like my wife says, why do you have so many guitars?
You can only play one at a time.

[ER]

Or like my wife says, why do you have so many guitars?
You can only play one at a time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ8ml7eENuI

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Or like my wife says, why do you have so many guitars?
You can only play one at a time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ8ml7eENuI

WOW! And he's got the whole grimace thing DOWN! Impressive!