how much does it cost you to build an amp?

[BBQLS1]

Bill, I agree it takes a lot of time to build a nice amp. Amp companies that do it everyday usually build an amp in 8-12 hours of actual bench time. The parts are presourced since they make multiples of them and they are usually semi-finished (chassis holes). Rarely do amps that are made everyday by the same person cause consistant trouble requiring debugging at startup. Since you own a Komet 60, I figure you are comparing that to your equation. The amp should cost about $2000-2500. Of course, you can add $150 for overhead per amp and a commision to the designer

Just one man's opinion. Of course, the amp is really worth what someone will pay for it! I'm not against someone making a buck!

all of that makes sense. but it's still not like 3800 or 4000 for an amp is like highway robbery.

Bill, if they can get it, it's OK with me. I have no axe to grind and more power to them!
I think (I may be wrong) Komets main thrust is repairs not new amp builds. I heard they only do a couple a month. I may be wrong but, that what was told to me. If someone can afford $4000 amps and someone wants to buy them...great! No jeers here!

I've been to their shop several times. Mike is a very nice guy and has looked over a couple of my builds and let me look at the insides of the Komets (I know Allen knows what the insides look like!). Whenever I've been there, there were way more amps there for repair than Komets going out. Those guys also spend alot of time building their amps (more than you would think), parts are very high quality, and lots of the details add a good deal of cost to the final product (like the cool tolexing and unconventional piping. They know the amps are expensive and after visiting numerous times, and talking with them I really don't think they are making a killing off each amp like many of us think.

[LeftyStrat]

Hey, s2, thanks for the details. When I first heard that it really freaked me out. I've always had this bad image of someone trying to build a tube amp and ignoring all the safety warnings, killing himself, and then his family suing anyone they can point a lawyer at. And not just the kit supplier, imagine the lawyer going after someone who posted some advice on a message board

I never ventured into the kit waters, but like you, I have found there is some decent money to be made on mods and repairs. The going rate in Seattle for amp work is $75 an hour. Half the "repairs" I've done were replacing dying tubes. "Danger High Voltage. No user serviceable parts. Seek a qualified technician. Cha-ching."

It seems the real demand these days, at least in Seattle, is doing solid state repairs. All the music shops are begging for SS techs, and can't find them, I think because no one wants to do it

[s2]

You can make decent $$ in kits if you have a product that can command a price about equal to double the parts or a little more. Unfortunately, that would make the kit run $800 - $1000 depending on the design. There is enough competition to keep you from sustaining that kind of price (just ask Graydon Stuckey), so you end up selling them for a sliver of profit. Then if you want to get anywhere, you have to make it up in volume. Therein lies the problem.

Like any business, if you have something novel like the D'Lite, it is harder to copy, so you can sustain a higher price and margin. But you have to continually innovate because someone will eventually rip you off and lower the price of admission. So each new, innovative design has a honeymoon period in the market during which you had better be working on the next one.

This happened to me with the Blues Jr conversions. I did about 80 of these at decent margins before everyone and his dog piled on and started doing it cheaper. The only thing I have going for me there is I'm the original (actually, I think Mark Huss did one before I did) and I have a huge gallery of photos--both of these seem to make customers comfortable with paying more. I guess I have some word of mouth going for me too.

Speaking of word of mouth...

I had one OCD customer who thought I was taking too long with his amp, so he smeared me all over the net (including a bad Harmony Central review). The impact of his actions are still dogging me. Ironically, he recently emailed and asked if our relationship was so soured that I wouldn't build him another amp!

Wow. That was a long, pointless ramble!

[Tubetwang]

No pointless ramble there S2...

I like to read about builders experience in the real world...

Fwiw, i think Brownote has something going on this North American market. Ceriatone is another one to watch...

Always going ahead...never sleeping...

[BBQLS1]

Speaking of word of mouth...

I had one OCD customer who thought I was taking too long with his amp, so he smeared me all over the net (including a bad Harmony Central review). The impact of his actions are still dogging me. Ironically, he recently emailed and asked if your relationship was so soured that I wouldn't build him another amp!

It's really a shame that so little effort can cause so many problems. I don't know what's wrong with people. Most people should realize that the internet is a dogs supper!

[briane]

I had one OCD customer who thought I was taking too long with his amp, so he smeared me all over the net (including a bad Harmony Central review). The impact of his actions are still dogging me. Ironically, he recently emailed and asked if our relationship was so soured that I wouldn't build him another amp!

thats actually quite funny. Sounds like he learned a valueable lesson.

I assume your answer was something like 'of course I can build you an amp. Have you seen the new pricing sheet?'

[rfgordon]

Speaking of pricing sheets, I got a peek at one for a couple of well-known boutique amp companies the other day when I was in the store that sells my stuff (on consignment).

The MSRP for these amps ranged from $2995 to $3995. The lowest dealer cost on the two lists was around $2100. Well, ain't nothing hitting the street for MSRP (except for price-fixed Peavey gear). So the dealer would have to have very little margin to move these amps.

A lot of the more well-known companies are either owned by or have distribution/sales agreements with third parties, so that pushes the dealer cost up with more middle men.

My point is that even though the amps cost a lot, the money goes many different directions even before it gets back to the builder. So, yeah, I think some folks can make a living out of it, but ain't nobody gettin' rich!

BTW, Fender just acquired Kaman music (Takamine & Ovation, among others). How long till Fender opens its own stores?

[nickt]

BTW, Fender just acquired Kaman music (Takamine & Ovation, among others). How long till Fender opens its own stores?

Been done before - remember "the Fender Sound House" - branches all over the world in CBS days.

[CaseyJones]

Like any business, if you have something novel like the D'Lite, it is harder to copy, so you can sustain a higher price and margin. But you have to continually innovate because someone will eventually rip you off and lower the price of admission. So each new, innovative design has a honeymoon period in the market during which you had better be working on the next one.

"Eventually"?! Try INSTANTLY!

Hey, I'm guilty too. All I need is a high res gutshot, something clear enough to read the color codes and I can guess the rest. What do you think this forum thing is all about?!

Wow. That was a long, pointless ramble!

No, it wasn't. I understand what you're saying. The only thing I'm not clear on is who your OCD customer was / is and obviously you can't name names in a public forum. It would be nice to have a short list of undesirable customers within our little community so they can be treated with the courtesy they deserve... which is exactly zero.

[krash]

fwiw it takes me about 8 hours including drilling/punching a blank chassis to build one of my production amps. once you get it down, there's no debug time unless you screw up. You just do a visual verification and then power it up.

I have spent a lot of time on sourcing parts and maintaining a bill of material, but that's very little continuing time cost. Kind of line NRE cost. you just pay that cost one time.

if I get more than 200 orders in one year I will have to consider hiring assembly help and/or quitting my day job.

At my current margins I have plenty of profit in an amp to make it worthwhile as a full-time venture, just depending on quantity. Once the quantities start to go up, I will have to consider aligning my prices with the market. With such a small quantity there's really no way to evaluate market value.