Non-musician builder?

[ToobNoob]

Hey, everybody. I met up with an old friend recently who said he had a friend that builds electronic products, fixes old TV's and radios, etc. and can read schematics in his sleep and really knows his stuff. He may be willing to build me an amp, but my question to all you veteran builders here is this: does it help a huge deal, a little bit, or not at all (or somewhere in between) to be a guitarist building an amp? Can a person who is not well-versed in music understand what kind of tone to go after and implement the know-how to achieve it? Is it just a matter of simply reading the schematics, getting the parts, following instructions and putting it all together to get a Trainwreck or Dumble clone or whatever? Or is something lacking if the builder doesn't really get into music that much, therefore better to seek out a guitarist/builder?

I'd be exremely interested in as many of your views as possible. Thanks.

P.S. - I sure ain't gonna build it. I just don't have the kind of head that gets this stuff and I'd also surely burn down the house with the soldering iron!

[tele caster]

Just look to Leo Fender for your answer. He didn't play guitar, yet he built great guitars and amps.

[mr_hankey]

Just look to Leo Fender for your answer. He didn't play guitar, yet he built great guitars and amps.

There's no question about that; but would his amps have been better if he had been a musician?

[M Fowler]

Mike Zaite (Dr Z) is a drummer not a guitarist and he makes great amps as well.

Jim Marshall was also a drummer but he also had some good people on the technical side of things.

[vibratoking]

I think you already answered most of your questions by simply asking them.

In some way you are asking if this particular builder will build an amp that satisfies you. If it bothers you that he doesn't play guitar then I would guess that his amp won't make the grade for you because you will always be wondering if it could be better. You will have to have a guitarist revoice it to ultimately know. If not, then it most likely will. None of us can possibly answer your question without having more information about him and you.

In general, I would say it helps to know guitar tones very well in order to voice an amp properly. There are certainly specific examples where this is not true, LF, JN et al...

Good luck in your quest.

[UR12]

Mike Zaite (Dr Z) is a drummer not a guitarist and he makes great amps as well.

Jim Marshall was also a drummer but he also had some good people on the technical side of things.

I don't play guitar either. I am also a drummer. Seems like most of the great amp builders were drummers . I think it helps to have an ear for music and know what a guitar should sound like through an amp with a good guitarist at the controls, but as pointed out it isn't a requirement to build a great amp. Some guitarists can take an amp that sounds just awesome in the right guitarist's hands and make them sound totally aweful in theirs.

The hard part for me when I first started dealing with amps and guitarists over 30 years ago was translating their guitarist vocabulary into somethng that made since to me on an electronics level. I have said it here more than once that "It's hard to explain the color red to a blind man" It becomes a knack to be able to translate what the guitarist is wanting or telling you about in regards to what he wants from an amp and turning that into something that actually does what he wants.

I have been very lucky to be surounded by my brother and a lot of good guitarists, to be able to help me dial in a circuit and give me feedback on what is missing or is over the top.

Try explaining what you are looking for in the amp you want him to build. If you get the ole deer in the headlights stare then you might want to find another builder.

[Aurora]

I don't play guitars either - per se........I belong in the group similar to those deecsribed by an old man who visites the Salvation Army - " they keep singing and scratcing them guitars....".
I play woodwinds myself - but I do have an extensive background from electronic service and prototype design, as well as being an HiFi buff for almost 40 years. There seems to be something "mysterious" about guitar amps, though - magic or myth - I don't know yet...

I think if one follows the true and tested designs here, particularly for the 'wrecks , - the chance of succeding are quite good. There may be something in this "voicing an amp" thing that I don't understand yet, but I still think I know how a guitar is supposed to sound...
The problem with many modern recordings are that we don't have the foggiest idea how much pedals and other "tone shaping" stuff have been included in the chain, -. and even more what the producer added to the mix.....
As for the amp itself, there sure is a lot of "words" in this community - no offence implied!
And FWIW - the HiFi crowd is even worse - loaded with urban myths and strange ideas......

[ToobNoob]

Thanks for the informative responses. Truth be told, I never met this friend of a friend, and when I asked my friend about his "builder" friend, he said that this guy wasn't a musician. So, yes, I admit my info was sketchy and will attempt to find out more and post it here. All opinions still welcome. Thanks!

[Structo]

I think the biggest obstacle is the vocabulary and having the amp tech understand when you tell him you need less mids and more highs or other such vernacular.

If he is experienced in tweaking things to the ear then it shouldn't be a problem.
But if he hasn't had experience in tuning an amp such as changing bypass cap and coupler cap values or knowing how a resistor value can affect frequencies he may have trouble.
But if he is a sharp cookie he should be able to figure it out.

[martin manning]

Just look to Leo Fender for your answer. He didn't play guitar, yet he built great guitars and amps.

Fender couldn't hear very well either. It is well known that he and his sales and marketing director Don Randall asked the opinions of their musician customers to guide their product design and development. Randall was a salesman and an engineer. Fender also had Freddie Taveres, a professional lap steel player with hundreds of recordings to his credit, working for him. I suspect that Freddie was the ears behind the voicing of Fender amps.

[ampmike]

I know Randall Smith of mesa boogie was a sax player and a auto buff,Later he was surrounded with a lot of good ears,Mike B,Doug West and than all his employies,I think you will do fine with this guy.Cheers Mike

[dynaman]

I'm a drummer, not a musician.

I just color by numbers......

Y'all would be mortified by the guitar I use to test amps. $5 from a garage sale, replete with three strings. I simply take my amps to band practice and the real slingers wail on them and critique.

[DR.Z]

Cool question let me give my .02 .
I believe being a musician HELPS in guitar amp building.
Engineers design Stereo Amps to meet or exceed specs and reproduce recorded music, guitar amps are built to be instruments and make music.
The knowledge of mixing sounds in a band context is important to an amps design.

Now I play a little guitar enough to test my amps, for sound and buzzes and rattles, but you'll never seem me on stage playing. I believe one big mistake some builders make is to dial the amp to there TASTE and TONE
requirements. This is great for them but try and find 10 guitarists with the same exact taste in what an amp should sound like. Try to build to the broadest audience, paint with a broad brush.

Through the years new builders have come to my shop with there built amps for me to hear. Boy is it hard to be subjective to a guy who spent years tweaking his prize face to face. I appreciate the time envolved in the pocess but many times it's the final transducer ( the speaker ) that makes the most differance in the amps overall sound. I'm lucky I have shelves of differant speakers to demo with new designs and select the best suited for that amp, small builders don't have that available. Point is don't forget the speaker in all your amp designs/builds.
Ken Fischer had many pre-Rola Celestions, he could tell you what side of the mountain the tree was grown that made up the pulp used in the cone
of his fav speakers. Having the right speakers is very important in the final tweak of an amp. Too bad the Celestions of late are headed in the wrong direction.

Good guitar player builders with great ears sure do have an advantage
over guy's like me. But I never let that stop me.

DR.Z

[dynaman]

Well said, Doc. Tone is truly subjective and I've had different fellas tell me "too much distortion", "too much headroom", "too bright", "too dark" yet all were talking about the same amp. Good grief.

Guitar players are a funny lot. One guy in my band will automatically set all tone controls to a certain point (where he likes his Marshall) before he even turns the amp on.

I think it's a psychological thing too. Like, not being able to have a treble pot cranked can really irritate some. You know the type, Strat on bridge pickup, all treble controls dimed, bright switch engaged - "This thing is too bright!!!"

Um, turn the knob down buddy!!

[ToobNoob]

I found out some more info on this guy. He's some old dude from some Eastern European country and listens to polka and stuff like that. Not familiar with western pop music at all., nor is he musically inclined. But anything electric/electronic? He apparantly can fix it with his eyes shut and has a fully outfitted workshop in his basement. I don't know of any local builders in my neck of the woods, so this guy may be the one I have to turn to. But if I say I'm looking for a Peter Green kind of tone or Eddie's "brown sound" or whatever, he probably might give me a blank stare! So I'm examining my options and still open to any opinions posted here.