Best coupling caps for a bf fender circuit

[seljetnoma]

Hi,

What do you guys think are the best coupling caps for a fender black face circuit? ( deluxe/twin/super reverb...)
I've tried 715p and 716p orange drops in the past, but with all the talk about exotic caps like sozo's etc.. it makes me wonder what's the best type and brand.
And what about the bright caps and treble caps, ceramic or silver mica?

Thanks a lot in advance, I appreciate your help.
Kind regards,

Frank

[keithrick]

Ceramic? I used ceramic in my AB763 build and it sounds great.

[LeftyStrat]

As Ken would say, "Use your ears."

I did a comparison between Mallory's and Sozo's and found no difference in a Marshall circuit. So either I don't have golden ears, or the emperor is wearing no clothes. And yes, I even did the magical "break-in period."

[dehughes]

I'm inclined to use Sprague 6PS caps in my approaching Blackface Deluxe build...FWIW.

[seljetnoma]

Thanks for replying.
What about wima mks4 caps in a blackface circuit? I know they are polyester caps, but how do they stand the test against 715p's or m 150's?

Regards,

Frank

[Darkbluemurder]

I have tried Sozo caps in Marshalls but not in Fenders. In the Marshalls I definitely prefer them over Orange Drops but I always had good results in Fenders with Orange Drops.

For the smaller caps I prefer silver micas in Fenders over the ceramics.
They seem to sound clearer to my ears.

Keep in mind that these changes are fairly subtle.

[jaysg]

418PS and 225PS Orange drops are probably better choices than the 715 line. They are similar to M150s, which are what Dave Allen sells. Cornell-Dubilier silver micas instead of ceramic. Sometimes exotic is the wrong answer.

[RB]

Whats the differance between SBE6PS orange drops the 418PS and 225PS ?

[jaysg]

Vishay makes 70 different types of polyester caps...lol. This list includes 225P, 418P, and PS Orange Drops. The technical differences are in the data sheets. For example, there aren't as many voltage ratings in 225. The audible differences are in the ear of the beholder.

http://www.vishay.com/capacitors/film/polyester/

[seljetnoma]

I once bought a bunch of 418p's from Dan Torres to upgrade my old Marshall 2203's coupling caps, once the caps were in my sound was ruined.

Frank

[LeftyStrat]

I once bought a bunch of 418p's from Dan Torres to upgrade my old Marshall 2203's coupling caps, once the caps were in my sound was ruined.

But was that due to differences in the sound of the caps, or differences in the values of the caps you replaced?

This is why I always hold cap shootouts suspect when they don't measure the actual values of the caps under test. Ten percent tolerance either way for each cap can add up.

The same holds for subjective evaluations of resistors. When some guy with an old amp complains that carbon or metal film resistors made his amp sound bad, I always wonder if it was the composition, or the fact his ears had grown accustomed to a sound based on carbon comp resisters that had likely drifted far from their original value.

If you're blueprinting a vintage amp, you have to ignore the value designations and measure every single component.

The difference between 100k and 78k in some places makes much more noticeable difference than what the composition is.

Heck, take a pile of 250k pots and measure them some time. They will be all over the place. Another interesting thing to try is wire your guitar without volume or tone controls, and then use a substitution box to select the resistance from hot to ground. Find what sounds best for you and then try to find a pot closest in value (by measurement, never trust what is stamped on the outside).

[seljetnoma]

I once bought a bunch of 418p's from Dan Torres to upgrade my old Marshall 2203's coupling caps, once the caps were in my sound was ruined.

But was that due to differences in the sound of the caps, or differences in the values of the caps you replaced?

This is why I always hold cap shootouts suspect when they don't measure the actual values of the caps under test. Ten percent tolerance either way for each cap can add up.

The same holds for subjective evaluations of resistors. When some guy with an old amp complains that carbon or metal film resistors made his amp sound bad, I always wonder if it was the composition, or the fact his ears had grown accustomed to a sound based on carbon comp resisters that had likely drifted far from their original value.

If you're blueprinting a vintage amp, you have to ignore the value designations and measure every single component.

The difference between 100k and 78k in some places makes much more noticeable difference than what the composition is.

Heck, take a pile of 250k pots and measure them some time. They will be all over the place. Another interesting thing to try is wire your guitar without volume or tone controls, and then use a substitution box to select the resistance from hot to ground. Find what sounds best for you and then try to find a pot closest in value (by measurement, never trust what is stamped on the outside).

Yeah, I used the same original values for the caps, all 0,022
You're right some value's may have drifted some, but the caps made the amp loose it's mojo for sure, I wish I left the stock caps in.
I didn't know about sozo's at the time, maybe they are better suited for the job.
Anyways I sold that amp last year, so i'll never know what it could sound like with sozo's.
Greets,

Frank

[CaseyJones]

This is why I always hold cap shootouts suspect when they don't measure the actual values of the caps under test. Ten percent tolerance either way for each cap can add up.

Indeed. Measure them and measure them with proper instrumentation. A cap that looks just fine with 9 volts applied may leak with 400 volts applied. In circuit that will cause all sorts of problems, DC on your grids, elusive noises, etc..

The same holds for subjective evaluations of resistors. When some guy with an old amp complains that carbon or metal film resistors made his amp sound bad, I always wonder if it was the composition, or the fact his ears had grown accustomed to a sound based on carbon comp resisters that had likely drifted far from their original value.

Science is meauring one variable at a time and only changing that variable. The typical amp "service" involves a cap job, replacing drifted components and fresh tubes as required... IF you're getting your money's worth! Of course the amp is going to sound different when you get it back. If you're used to farty old spent capacitors, soft tubes that have lived out their twilight years and resistors that have drifted to double their original value then you might not like what you get. If what you had sounded like an old blues recording from the '30s I can see your point.

[novosibir]

As Ken would say, "Use your ears."

I accord to this!

I did a comparison between Mallory's and Sozo's and found no difference in a Marshall circuit. So either I don't have golden ears, or the emperor is wearing no clothes. And yes, I even did the magical "break-in period."

You must have had a bad day... because this is impossible!

I hear a remarkable difference between the Mallory 150's and the SoZo Standard Line, even already after a first break in time of only 8-10 hours...

... and the differences soundwise between the Mallory 150's and the SoZo Premium line is like day & night IMO! Compared to the SoZo Premium's, especially when you're after a pure British 60' or early 70' tone, the Mallory simply is sounding lifeless, flat and bland!

Larry

[tele_player]

Let's talk about signal cap break-in...

What changes in a cap after some hours of use? The capacitance value? The ESR? Inductance? Something else? Is it something that can't be measured (I hate those!) ?