High Gain Orange Amps

[dcribbs1412]

Anyone have any experience with these circuits?

Thinking about a new build...Rocketverb 50 maybe
wondering how much different the Rockerverb style circuit is from a modded marshall style.



D

[Gaz]

They're different in that there is no treble peaking, no cathode follower, big bypass caps, but small coupling caps. Pretty much an Engl but with a tonestack that emphasizes mids more. They also don't have a presence control, but not a lot of NFB. They sound kinda boxy to me, and I think in some ways they are trying to emulate the midrangey-ness of the old Oranges, even though the circuits have virtually nothing in common.

[dcribbs1412]

Thanks Gaz
appreciate the info
Looking at the older circuits now. A little simpler design
Might give the retro 50 a shot.

D

[Gaz]

The Retro 50 isn't "older." It's just an Overdrive model with a Marshall tonestack according to M Fowler's schematic. And the Overdrives were just regular Oranges with a PPIMV. If you want an Orange, I say build an Overdrive, not that Retro abomination But seriously, if you're gonna start mixing and matching this tonestack with that preamp, etc. Then you might as well just design your own. JM2C.

[dcribbs1412]

The Retro 50 isn't "older." It's just an Overdrive model with a Marshall tonestack according to M Fowler's schematic. And the Overdrives were just regular Oranges with a PPIMV. If you want an Orange, I say build an Overdrive, not that Retro abomination But seriously, if you're gonna start mixing and matching this tonestack with that preamp, etc. Then you might as well just design your own. JM2C.

Gaz
Thanks for pointing that out
is it possible to point me to any clips that you consider the older,classic OD Orange sound?
I'm thinking about trying to cobble together a layout as close to the Orange(Overdrive) I can.
Appreciate your time
D

[dcribbs1412]

I know youtuge is not the best but I found these
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XDuJVSdWy_g

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SqZoBuLiUZ0
Wondering if these are decent examples

[Smokebreak]

I was watching a band a while back and the guitarist was plugged straight into a Rockerverb, and it sounded amazing. Like a dork I was looking up schematics during the show, and starting hacking one into a 2x6V6 as soon as I got home. It sounds great. It's really gainy. I've got an old weber plexi kit I was thinking of putting it in today!
I did an OD120 a long time ago and that is a fantastic amp too. Kinda dark to me, which I like, and different than the Marshall grind. Really ballsy.

[rp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcPEIaGikhQ

the whole concert might be on youtube in bits and pieces.

big amps, small computer speakers.

[Gaz]

I know youtuge is not the best but I found these
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XDuJVSdWy_g

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SqZoBuLiUZ0
Wondering if these are decent examples

I think the first one is a pretty good representation. Good alternative to a Plexi for a old school power amp overdrive sound. They are both a little crustier and smoother sounding than a split cathode Plexi.

As far as the Rockerverb, it's a fine amp, just not anything to do with the original Orange circuits if that's what the OP's interested in hearing.

[dcribbs1412]

Thanks for the link rp
Smoke hearing an amp live
then going home and building it...that's cool.
Think I'm going to give the older original circuit a go
well as close as I can with parts on hand.
pic of a mockup missing a 47uf and a .047uf in the pre
had the bianchi's on hand hoping to get close to the
crustier and smoother sound that Gaz speaks of.
if not I will get some .068's. Radials are 33uf 450V
tonestack will be on pots.


D

[Gaz]

Nice! Yeah, the smooth yet crustiness (haha) has a lot to do, I think, with the cathodyne (can be "fixed" with Merlin's large gridstop trick), the 1nF plate bypass on the last stage, and the lower PS filtering, and general bass overloading. James tonestack can have a big effect to depending on how you set it. These amps come across very throaty and vocal-like overdriven. Not as buzzy as a 1987 Plexi circuit.

[dcribbs1412]

Gotta do an order for a few things not on hand
wondering about a few things I have seen on different schems...
presence cap .047 or .47 seen both(guessing .47)
looking at using the LaMar PPIMV dual 250KA/2.2m
last stage values 100k/1nf bypass or 390k/1nf
actually the PI values in general
Gaz i gotta ask what is the trick

cathodyne (can be "fixed" with Merlin's large gridstop trick),

if possible
Thanks
D

[Gaz]

Yeah, cathodyne is either AC or DC coupled, both just sound different. Many prefer the DC, or was that AC?.... I think you'll have to try both yourself and see! Cleans are not too different but DC will have less crustiness and more puncy...ness.

Presence cap is .47uF as far as I know. One thing to try would be to move the FAC between the first two stages like the older GRO models, which is more Matamp like. It's more effective there, but works okay after the tonestack too.

Don't worry too much about the master just do whichever one is easier. I don't think the larmar is really that much "better" than the kind in the OD schematics. If it were me, I'd probably just use the larmar cause I've done them before.

[dcribbs1412]

Thanks Gaz
really appreciate the info.

D

[rp]

FYI http://hilbishdesign.bigcartel.com/

Can't personally say if this site is a good and reliable provider or not. Someone here was working on a clone with parts from the above link but the post died out and I don't recall who.

Word is that Heyboer winds a fine set of Hiwatt Partridge clones. Now the question is if the Orange and Hiwatt trannies were off-the-shelf or proprietary winds? Hopefully, someone here knows and can chime in, I myself would love to know, and moreover I've always wondered if the Hiwatt, Sound City, and Orange iron was all the same? Even if different the Heyboer Hiwatt iron is likely your best bet.

There's an Orange database website out there too with pictures and info.

I wouldn't bother building a modern Orange clone when the old ones are so cool, and you can prolly pick up a used modern amp off Craigslist for what it would cost you to build it.