high gain lee jackson gp 1000

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Gorhrut
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high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by Gorhrut »

i have a gp 1000 preamp that i am trying to modify to sound like alexi laiho's from the band children of bodom. i am pretty close tonewise but am lacking gain, low end, and a bit of a growl on the low end. i have already done quite a few modifications but im not quite there. i have a few mod ideas and would like opinions on whether this will work or not. here is the schematic for reference:

[IMG:3148:2178]http://i.imgur.com/JHtqvzS.jpg[/img]

i am planning on changing c6 and c8 to 2.2 uf instead of the .1uf. am i correct in understanding that this should allow more bass freqs to pass through before the output?

i am also thinking of changing the .0022 coupling cap on v1b to a .022. will this increase the bass response too much? i know some marshalls can get quite boomy with this value. will this add any increase in gain?(whether true or perceived)

i dont know how to accomplish the low end growl/slight buzz. i know children of bodom drive the front end of their amps hard. i know the growl isnt coming from the power tubes. any ideas?[/img]
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roberto
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by roberto »

100n on 1M gives an 1,5Hz high pass filter, there's no need to go even lower.
What's the poweramp you are currently using?
Gorhrut
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by Gorhrut »

im using a vht 2/50/2 that i modified to run kt88s instead of the el34s.
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roberto
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by roberto »

I would ask how you know the growl isn't coming from the power tubes, but anyway...

Play on the values around V2:
- the voltage divider (signal to 4th stage)
- the split loads (overall gain and signal to next stages)
- the cathode bypass (gain and frequency shape)
- the snubber (attenuation of harsh harmonics)
Gorhrut
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by Gorhrut »

i dont know for a fact that its not power tubes but, the band themselves said that they drive the front end (preamp) really hard and dont dime the poweramps. they use kt88s also which are used because of their clean headroom, and most people agree that kt88s dont break up in a very musical way. its pretty common in modern metal to get all the gainfrom the preamp and use the poweramp soley for amplification.

just for reference, here is the bands signal path(im using same gear):

emg alx(passive pickup with built in preamp)
shure uhf u4d wireless
lee jackson gp 1000
sansamp psa 1
rsp 2400 multiband enhancer
rocktron intellifex
vht/fryette 2/90/2
marshall 1960b cab/1960bv cab in later albums


from pics ive never seen the volume of the poweramps above noon. and i know from experience that the powertubes are no where near breakup at this setting.


ill try out those suggestions and see if that gets me closer. thank you.
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xtian
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by xtian »

Just curious: Why the dedication to duplicating their tone? Are you in a tribute band?
I build and repair tube amps. http://amps.monkeymatic.com
Gorhrut
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by Gorhrut »

No, I'm not in a tribute band. I've been searching for THAT tone for eight years, tried marshalls, krank, mesa......, and then one day I heard an unmixed version of children of bodoms song "are you dead yet?" And I loved it.

if anyone is interested, here are some links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3QPd1pdsjk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAx_CGyZnzw

in the second one, when they play seperate, u can really hear the "growl". maybe im using the wrong word to describe what im hearing?idk.....
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roberto
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by roberto »

I have to admit that I can listen to COB as long as a F1 tire change, not more, anyway I'd go to 4n7 for C9, and around 100n for C3, as a starting point.

I'd also mod the poweramp to lower the NFB.
The poweramp has a great impact on this kind of sounds, even if "approximately clean".
matt h
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by matt h »

(deleted)
Last edited by matt h on Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jana
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by Jana »

Change C1 to 2uf.
What?
Gorhrut
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by Gorhrut »

there are a few mods ive already done. my mods are done in red on the schematic. these are mods i know for a fact alexi has had done. c1 and r1 are .68 and 825. lee jackson did this mod personally to alexi's unit as well as changing c18 and 19 to .1 and .2. he also did a gain mod that i dont know the details on.these mods were done in '89 when the gp's belonged to stone guitarist roope latvala. the only mod ive done that im not sure he did is the plate resistor on v1a.

then in 2003 he had his tech in helsinki do some mods that added gain, more bass, and more mids. i think they also changed the character of the distortion a bit. but again, i have no info for these mods. i wish i knew the techs name, then i could just ask him. lol
Last edited by Gorhrut on Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Meat&Beer
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by Meat&Beer »

There is a GP-1000 for sale on eBay, apparently modded by Lee Jackson himself. I asked the seller exactly what has been done, if he could provide a schematic with the mods noted, etc. I didn't get a schem, but this is what he said;

There is no added tubestage or tube (kind of the same regarding this unit), it is a larger and very demanding task in in this kind of preamp. What has been done is is the same as the upgrade Lee Jackson himself did with the last 500 GP-1000's he made. It is replacing C1 (first capacator on tve main PCB) and the parallell resistor with a lesser value to cover up a bit of the harshness you could hear in the youtube clips of this unit and at the same time adding a tiny bit more gain. It sounds more like a Marshall JMC-800 now kind of. I can send you a schematic and a detailed picture of the modification and more suggested mods to get more modern sound out of it if you decide to buy it.

The additional gain stage of the late 87 and 88 version is comming from the third tube, the 87 version had a dedicated XLR output that the third tube drove, now all of the third tube goes to more gain output


And here's the listing;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1439920527

Hope this helps! If you want more info you have to buy his, hah! Nope.

Jana's suggestion is a good one, for what you're describing. Even if it's the opposite of what the eBay guy said, never know if he's even telling the truth, ya know!

EDIT- Now that I actually think about it, lowering C1 and the parallel R (Cathode stuffs)... Lowering that R will actually increase headroom, and decrease its gain, if I'm not mistaken... Also, lowering the cap will roll off MORRE bass frequencies. I dunno if I'd actually do that. It was worth a look at what the guy said, at least.

But, maybe the "added gain stage" compensates for this. I sent the guy another message, trying to pry this schematic from him...

By the way, modding PCB is a real pain in the ass. You don't want to go screwing around on that thing any more than you have to, if you decide to.
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Meat&Beer
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by Meat&Beer »

That guy got back to me, stating the only mods done to the amp were changing the values of V1a cathode, and the values you have on the schematic you posted in red, are the values he mentioned.

Nothing said about V3 being converted to additional gain staging. Hmm.

That's all I got! I've wanted one of these units for a while, be sure to keep us updated! COB used to be great, now they sound tired and or rushed in the writing process. Seen them at least 8 or more times live, they sure don't suck in concert at least!
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roberto
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by roberto »

Gorhrut wrote:changing c18 and 19 to .1 and .2
It seems a rough x2 on the eq values, even if the bass cap does pretty nothing on the sound, while the mid cap has an audible effect on the mids.
Rune
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Re: high gain lee jackson gp 1000

Post by Rune »

Cute that you guys are discussing my auction and my knowledge on this forum.
Alexi's amp tech himself said this about the mod and this is a direct quote:

Me: Replacing the 1,25kohm and 22uF with 825 ohm and 0.68uF resistor and capacator C1. This will smooth out the brightness some and free a tiny bit more distortion/gain.

Tech: *This is done already in some units. ( Factory installation). So actually ity's not a mod, it's an update.

This is Lee Jackson's own suggested mods page from his metaltronix homepage.
http://metaltronix.net/metaltronix-modification.htm

"PERFECT CONNECTION GP-1000 PRE-AMP MODIFICATION: Change the cathode circuit on the first gain stage from 1.5k ohm/22uF to 825 ohm/.68uF. This mod gives a little extra gain and reduces the scratchy character of the distortion timbre."

So don't come teaching me about the GP-1000, I've dealt with the amp and it's possibilities for more than a decade now.

Now it is easy to misunderstand the unit, because it is very unique. It is a mixture of all the amps Lee Jackson has worked with throughout the years and at the time amps with a overdrive pedal in front was the thing, and everybody used it in that way. What Stone and Alexi wanted with the unit was keeping the mid-rage and getting rid of some of the treble as well as adding modern gain and bass response.Remember this was the first mass produced Guitar rack preamp. So it need some heavy modification on almost all stages.

But the most important thing in this case is that Bodom's tone comes from the pickup and on-board preamp they use with it, Jackson JE-1000 or ESP MM-04. Alexi's signature pickup package (EMG) aren't used by the man himself.

Changing C18, 19 to 100n/200n are done to the 1988 version as stock as well, not always, but in 90% of the cases.

C6 should be 2.2n and C8 should be 100n, which should be stock in most units. It gives output #2 more bass frequency and if you've played it you know what I'm talking about. But this wasn't even touched in Bodom's units. As of 2004 Bodom only used output #2 anyways.

R15: Adding a larger resistor here only enhance the volume on the unit, which could be done with the trimpot beneath it anyways. It's helps nothing in this situation.

Now a clarification from an article in Premier Guitar of an interview with Lee Jackson about the extra gainstage in 88 units:

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/G ... ack_Preamp


"So, I quickly went to my lab and started designing a change to the GP-1000 that would satisfy that need. I had parameters that I needed to stay in, like the number of tubes, controls, power transformer etc., especially if we were going to make the change on the next production run. I needed more gain stages, and the only place I could get it was from the tube-driven XLR balanced out, so away it went. On the first batch, we put a metal plate over the holes until the new metal arrived, when it was removed all together."

The same article shines light on my insight between 87 and 88 model as well.

Edit: And I have a whole offical Bodom forum to proof that I know the mods Alexi had/have in his now retired GP-1000.
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