2013 12AX7 Tube Comparison

[ampdoc1]

Just ordering some parts from Tubes and More when I saw this hand guide

[Richie]

Just speaking for myself, and having tried and used some of those,i would not believe anything on there.. I sent all of the ones I tried back. The ones I like they don't sell.

[Firestorm]

Just speaking for myself, and having tried and used some of those,i would not believe anything on there.. I sent all of the ones I tried back. The ones I like they don't sell.

Do tell. Please.

[Richie]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-High-Gain-S ... 4173c29a11

[Leo_Gnardo]

I'm pretty much with Richie on this, although there's a "sleeper" in there I now stock because it's the cheapest of the lot, and generally works well. Frankly I carry it because I can get a better profit margin than with the other tubes that have supposedly been tested, rated, and printed with the logo of some so-called trustworthy supplier.

"Sparkle", well those Chinese 12AX7's have that (no matter the logo on the glass) but I call it "Jingle" because it sounds like Santa's sleigh landing on the roof. You don't even have to play to hear it. NOT a sound most of my customers want in their amps. Only the deaf ones. Ring-a-ding-ding, annoying noise from the amp. Save the jingle bells for Christmas.

Say Richie, I'd like to know your favorite 12AX7 and where to get it. Moochas garcias amiglo!

- - - - -

edit: Ha you beat me to it. Svet's from Carolina, who knew? Funny t'ing I got some svet's from other sources say 10-15 years ago. Highly variable, some made the most amazing outer-space noises. But the ones that worked, holey smokes they did sound well above average. Now the svet factory has gone the way of the dodo I'll have to ring up Carolina and get a batch. I hope THEY stocked up a boat load. Moochas garcias all over again!

[Firestorm]

The old ones were SED St. Petersburg. Very hit or miss. I had some shiny plate ones that were odd. These must be from Saratov. Interesting variety coming out of that factory. I take it Mike came to terms with the "group" that was trying to grab the real estate.

[Leo_Gnardo]

The old ones were SED St. Petersburg. Very hit or miss. I had some shiny plate ones that were odd. These must be from Saratov. Interesting variety coming out of that factory. I take it Mike came to terms with the "group" that was trying to grab the real estate.

I've seen both shiny and grey plate from =C= aka SED. Huge flat plates. IF Reflektor/Saratov/Xpo-Pul factory were making this variety currently I'd have to wonder why Mr. Matthews - New Sensor - wasnt' flogging them right now. He is quite the salesman.

FWIW I've seen 'em show up in early 2000-series Marshalls. Just had another thru here a couple days ago, had 'em and still working well. With Marshall logo printed on the glass.

[Firestorm]

I think New Sensor have determined to let the distributors do the flogging. He has an awful lot of brands based on the same template. Wouldn't do to push one too hard yourself. Interestingly, the Svetlana branded New Sensor products are still not for sale in the EU, so the original SED is still a viable legal entity. I wonder if plans are afoot for New Sensor to acquire the St. Petersburg plant. It would make a lot of sense if Reflektor is still the target of a land grab.

[renshen1957]

Just ordering some parts from Tubes and More when I saw this hand guide

Hi, they have the same over at cedist.com, the wholesale division of the same company.

http://www.cedist.com/tech_corner/12ax7 ... made_tubes.

Missing (cuz they don't sell em) rebranded Chinese Tubes (Jolida from Shuguang, etc.), TJ Full Music, Gold Lion reissue, and Psvane. Also missing from their previous list is the Fender 12ax7 and Peavey 12AX7.

My 50 year old tube didn't like either the JJ-12ax7 or the EH12ax7. I found the tone and inner detail better with the EH tube (better than GE NOS tube) but both tubes cracked at the base when NOS stock tubes did not in the left channel PI.

By contrast, a Shuguang 12AX7 tested and rebranded by Hi-Fi supplier Jolida, survived the test. The Tube has lasted (knock on wood) quite some time, and exceeded the performance of the EH 12AX7 for clarity and detail. YMMV, but

Best regards,

Steve

[bluesky636]

Just speaking for myself, and having tried and used some of those,i would not believe anything on there.. I sent all of the ones I tried back. The ones I like they don't sell.

I fail to understand your apparent criticism of the results presented in the referenced comparison. Are you claiming the data presented is false (seems like a reasonable comparison of tubes sold by AES based on tests performed by the author and described in the paper) or is it just that it didn't include your favorite tube? I find no mention of the testing done by Carolina Tube Store nor can I even find a website for them except for their E-Bay store. For the record, for new production tubes I prefer JJ as sold and tested by http://www.eurotubes.com/.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Interestingly, the Svetlana branded New Sensor products are still not for sale in the EU, so the original SED is still a viable legal entity. I wonder if plans are afoot for New Sensor to acquire the St. Petersburg plant. It would make a lot of sense if Reflektor is still the target of a land grab.

The real SED - Svetlana in St. Petersburg Russia - still exists according to the reports I have seen BUT no longer manufacture "receiving tubes" aka anything you would use in a guitar amp or hi fi gear. So the prohibition on selling other than SED products as SED anywhere but USA continues - MM's flim flam is only "legal" in the USA. (Currently and since early 2000's tubes marked and marketed as SED in USA may be OK and maybe not, not made by Svetlana but are made in other Russian plants for New Sensor, that's my understanding.. All due to New Sensor (MM) acquiring the Svetlana trade name in USA only. And the =C= label designates "authentic" Svet's. Supposedly... Disregarding the flap over labeling, take the Duke's advice - if it sounds good it is good.)

Just for curiosity where can I read up on the Reflektor "land grab", thanks!

[Richie]

Just speaking for myself, and having tried and used some of those,i would not believe anything on there.. I sent all of the ones I tried back. The ones I like they don't sell.

I fail to understand your apparent criticism of the results presented in the referenced comparison. Are you claiming the data presented is false (seems like a reasonable comparison of tubes sold by AES based on tests performed by the author and described in the paper) or is it just that it didn't include your favorite tube? I find no mention of the testing done by Carolina Tube Store nor can I even find a website for them except for their E-Bay store. For the record, for new production tubes I prefer JJ as sold and tested by http://www.eurotubes.com/.

This is from the chart they have.

This graph is based on the average gain and noise measured from different tube brands using the same number of samples for each brand. It should not be assumed that every single 12AX7 from a specific brand will match its place on this graph.

First I only posted the Carolina because it was the first pic of a Svetlana 12ax7 tube. One day I need to make a video of some of this stuff. its much easier to show and listen,than explain.
But first yes these are the newer type, not to be compared at all to the old first run winged C, which were about the worst ever..

The test said same number of tubes were used for each brand.

Lets just say, you bought 10 tubes of the same brand. One of the main things is, what amp, what circuit. Meaning, some amps the tube may work fine, in another amp it may not.
The express V1 section, an 18watt marshall in the trem channel. many other higher gain amps. Or if you need one for a Cathode follower circuit. Some new tubes data,will tell you not to be used in a CF circuit. too high of voltage on the cathode. Or look at say the new "labeled" 12AT7 from various brands. Then look at a real NOS 12AT7. Also try and put one in an amp, and read the voltages. Then try a NOS tube and compare. The new 12AT plates look nothing like the old 12AT tubes. It looks more like the new 12AT are 12AX that didn't measure up to spec,so they call them a 12AT. Who knows for sure, i'm just saying they don't look or act like the old NOS tubes.

You may get many tubes to work in low gain amps. but higher ones, you may find they are too microphonic, or noisey or lots of hum,or hiss.

Oh.. renshen1957, the tube that cracked, did the socket have or use a shield base, or base with the mounting for a tube shield.
Quite a few have reported this happening.
It appears to be mostly since the tubes are fatter in size they fit very snug in the sockets,and the shield base comes in contact with the tube. Seems this is what causes most of them to crack. More simple, they new tubes are fatter an fit to tight in the old sockets. the heating and cooling I think is what cause them to crack.


But back to the question, I usually buy 10 tubes, and go through those. I found some that to me, were non useable. And that is before even plugging in a guitar. Just too much noise,and crap. Usually out of most tube brands, if you bought 10 tubes, you may get 2 that are excelant, 3 a step below that, then down from there,a couple may be ok for a low gain amp, then you may have 2 that needs to be in the trash can or unuseable. Very rare you get 10 all unuseable. And maybe i'm to picky. I like a lot of tubes, many NOS are great,and some still not too expensive.

And i'm sure many places that sell tubes also test tubes,and they can all have different standards they go by. But I also hate to see someone spend 400.00 on a matched set or whatever tested, and 3 close,and one way off from being matched. Or a NOS what ever brand preamp tube that is so noisey its unuseable. Sorry for the long winded explanation.

[Prairie Dawg]

The most important thing to me as a semi pro amp mechanic is to buy preamp tubes that are low noise, particularly when I'm working on a high gain amp. My customers want stuff in their amps that works right out of the box and that they don't have to fiddle with.

I scored a bunch of Phillips 6681 mobile radio tubes a few years ago that are good for high gain amps but I've nearly come to the end of them and saving what I have left for special cases.
These days I buy JJ ECC83s from CE because the price is good and the tubes they're making currently are relatively quiet and noise free. That's good enough for me.

Of course on my own amps I can be very happy picking through my collection of NOS tubes to find something I like.

[renshen1957]

Just speaking for myself, and having tried and used some of those,i would not believe anything on there.. I sent all of the ones I tried back. The ones I like they don't sell.

I fail to understand your apparent criticism of the results presented in the referenced comparison. Are you claiming the data presented is false (seems like a reasonable comparison of tubes sold by AES based on tests performed by the author and described in the paper) or is it just that it didn't include your favorite tube? I find no mention of the testing done by Carolina Tube Store nor can I even find a website for them except for their E-Bay store. For the record, for new production tubes I prefer JJ as sold and tested by http://www.eurotubes.com/.

AES/CEDIST previous list had different values ascribed to the some of the tubes that are on both lists to my memory. I am too busy to go over to the Internet Archive Wayback machine to look at archived copies of AES/CEDIST websites most of the changes were in the JJ tubes ratings.

Tubestore wrote some criticism of SED 12ax7 tubes when they were labeled Svetlana, and then wrote praise for the New Sensor Saratov Svetlanas, but that could be marketing.

However the some audiophile forum members raved about the Winged C 12ax7, the same people that wrote complimentary things about the Sovtek NOS 1999-2001 LPS tubes.

Best regards,

Steve

[Richie]

Just speaking for myself, and having tried and used some of those,i would not believe anything on there.. I sent all of the ones I tried back. The ones I like they don't sell.

I fail to understand your apparent criticism of the results presented in the referenced comparison. Are you claiming the data presented is false (seems like a reasonable comparison of tubes sold by AES based on tests performed by the author and described in the paper) or is it just that it didn't include your favorite tube? I find no mention of the testing done by Carolina Tube Store nor can I even find a website for them except for their E-Bay store. For the record, for new production tubes I prefer JJ as sold and tested by http://www.eurotubes.com/.

The good thing about some of the "tested" tubes is the dealer. Some or most will make good if the tubes are not what they say. All the tubes I have sent back were from CEDIST, who didn't ask any questions, they just gave me a return number,and credit.
I'm sure many others are like that too. I have read some of that on the forum. And the tubes I bought were untested or just stock. Like a lot of the tubes, if you go through and test them, you'll usually find some good ones.

As I think back, we all waited on those Mullard GT tubes when they first came out. And the thing was, if you got a good one, it was really good, just weeding through to find the one. Same for some of the more current EI tubes. a lot to weed through, but find a good one they sounded good. Not to be compared to the old EI or Tungsram or other labeled tubes of that type. One of my favorite, with the little number stamp foil thing. I guess my all time favorite is the Bugle Boys. But many others I like too.