poweramp-driven "liquid" distortion.

[Edoardo]

Hello everyone from Venice,

Though I'm not a DIYer, I joined your community for asking you some fairly technical questions.

Well... So I'm looking for an amp that will NOT need to be modded by myself if any mods will be needed, but since I have googled for weeks without success, I hope that you guys will be able to help...




Let's say I need an amp with the "power tube distortion" option. Else, I've read around that not all tube amps feature a power section that would be easy to overdrive.


I'm looking for some amp that would go from "clean" to "warm" to "overdriven" to...
"violin"/"liquid"/"creamy"/"cranked"/"screaming" tones, or whatever you'd call that

I don't need crunchy stuff, dirty distortion, "metal" nor "modern" sounds.



I've got that I could achieve the tone I'm looking for by overdriving a tube amp's power section.

But I did not get:

1) how big/powerful this power section shall be (1, 5, 15, 30, 50 watts), and if this influences the tone... Else, whether I need a "big" power circuit (like, at least 2 or 4 tubes) to reach this tone or whether I just need a small head featuring one 1-watt power tube and a volume knob. Or neither. Very confusing info on this point.

2) Whether having some clipping diodes somewhere between the pre and power amp would help me or not.

3) Whether only certain power tubes (i.e. EL34's, 6V6) do this or not

4) Whether the number of preamp gain stages has to do with this, or whether analog rack preamps that do this exist.

5) Which kind of tube amps would be DAMAGED from being used with the controls turned to "11"

6) If there are any tricks to extend the tubes life expectancy. I've read about getting the amp "cooled off", or "biased cold", but I have no clue of what it means. Also, I should be able of explaining this in Italian if this mod will be needed, so please explain this using more words as possible.

7) What would be the tubes life expentancy anyway?




Suggestions are welcome! Please, if you know any amp model that would suit my needs,

I can spend up to 1000€ for a amp+attenuator or amp+isobox couple.
I would be happy to find something in the used market.

I don't have any brand bias - small manufacturers I've never heard of will be as welcome as long as they don't have boutique prices - but I would strongly prefer U.S./U.K./E.U. made stuff.... Yeah, maybe a psychological thing.

One more thing: an amp featuring an effects loop (or pre out / power in) out would be preferred, but maybe I want too many things for my budget.



Thanks a lot!

[Zippy]

How loud do you need to play?

What amps have you used so far?

Have any come close to your needs?

[Reeltarded]

Yeah, and/or what guitar player do you think gets this amazing tone? If you hear something you know you like and have an example we'll figure it out quickly.

When you talk about "violin tones" I hear Eric Johnson with a Fuzzface or Holdsworth playing with lots of preamp gain through a solid-state amp.

See?

Who do you like?

[M Fowler]

A 50w to 100w amp that has preamp gain control and a master volume control so you can turn down the gain knob and crank up the master volume for power tube overdrive.

Mark

[Edoardo]

Hi guys, thanks a lot for the interest

How loud do you need to play?

What amps have you used so far?

Have any come close to your needs?

I don't need nor want to be any loud at all, unless it's needed.

The only tube amp I've owned an was an orange tiny terror 7/15 watts, but I didn't like the colour it added to the tone, and was way too crunchy. Sold it a couple of years ago. Now I'm just clean-sounding.

Yeah, and/or what guitar player do you think gets this amazing tone? If you hear something you know you like and have an example we'll figure it out quickly.

When you talk about "violin tones" I hear Eric Johnson with a Fuzzface or Holdsworth playing with lots of preamp gain through a solid-state amp.

See?

Who do you like?

OK... these are some "reference" tones but I'm not looking for sounding just like these recordings. I'm looking for the "common" thing among them.


Dave Gilmour, Live in Gdansk

Eric Clapton, Sessions for Robert J.

Santana, Supernatural

Eric Clapton, From the Cradle

Jimi Hendrix, Are you experienced?

...And the most "electric" John Lee Hooker and Lightinin' Hopkins.


this tone of Oldfield's got me a lot as well:

http://youtu.be/7Zt_W2VwHx4?t=2m7s


I don't mind Eric Johnson's tone but it's a too "modern"-sounding for me.

Holdsworth... No... not really.

I would not a mind hybrid, preamp-focused or stompbox-centric solution anyway. It's just that it's not what I've been addressed to, at all. I took for granted that overdriving a power stage was the only way. So I directly asked what kind of power stage I shall overdrive. But if you told me that a "Compressor+Fuzz+preamp" solution can do that, I'd be as happy, maybe happier.

A 50w to 100w amp that has preamp gain control and a master volume control so you can turn down the gain knob and crank up the master volume for power tube overdrive.

Mark

More than 50 watts? I'm afraid it's gonna be too big and expensive (in all the ways) what about the "no one needs a 100-Watt amp" thing?.

[briane]

Id say 25 watt dumble 2 channel overdrive - high plate classic should cover it.

keep it simple - just get the do everything box and be done.

Unfortunately you will have to order one from ceria or bludo or someone else - its really a DIY amp.

I think modding the amp is what makes it special - then no other amp sounds like that one - gives you a custom tone that others cant achieve. Just bite the bullet and learn how to do it - you will learn tons that you really need to understand how these boxes work.

[Edoardo]

Id say 25 watt dumble 2 channel overdrive - high plate classic should cover it.

keep it simple - just get the do everything box and be done.

Unfortunately you will have to order one from ceria or bludo or someone else - its really a DIY amp.

I think modding the amp is what makes it special - then no other amp sounds like that one - gives you a custom tone that others cant achieve. Just bite the bullet and learn how to do it - you will learn tons that you really need to understand how these boxes work.

Man, thanks, it's really not my thing. I'd want a "plug&play" amp in the house before summer's gone...

Bludo's are 4 / 6 times my budget ... Have you got a 700-800$ "working" ceriatone model to suggest?

[vibratoking]

...Have you got a 700-800$ "working" ceriatone model to suggest?...

Dood, you are on an amp builders forum, yet you have no interest in building an amp. I think you would be better off hitting TGP for the info that you are looking for. TGP has lot's of guys that use off-the-shelf amps and there are quite a lot for sale over there. You say you need to ask technical questions, but you really haven't asked any. TGP will get you what you need.

[Reeltarded]

Mesa MK IV.

[martin manning]

How do you know that power amp distortion is what you are after? Do you like the tone of the Bludo? That is not power amp distortion.

[vibratoking]

For $800? I am not sure there is an amp in existance that can do all that for that money.

[yalesmith]

Look at used brown note, they also have a 22 watt version if u are concerned with volume

[M Fowler]

the OTS Lunchbox is perfect for what you want, already built and under $700.

[Edoardo]

...Have you got a 700-800$ "working" ceriatone model to suggest?...

Dood, you are on an amp builders forum, yet you have no interest in building an amp. I think you would be better off hitting TGP for the info that you are looking for. TGP has lot's of guys that use off-the-shelf amps and there are quite a lot for sale over there. You say you need to ask technical questions, but you really haven't asked any. TGP will get you what you need.

I've asked about clipping diodes, power tube models, power tubes behaviour, electronic bias etc. ... I don't know when things start getting tecnical for you, but I've asked here because these questions are kind of geeky, objectively.

In weeks, all the info I've found on this stuff were on DIYer-oriented sites/blogs/articles, so I dared to ask here because the average question on any other guitar forum I've come across seem much more "lower profile". (or "even" lower profile indeed).

In other words.
If I had to ask "best head for power-trash-uber METAL under 150$" I would haven't come here for sure; if I have to ask what the hell a clipping diode is or what "cooling the bias down" means or implies (that's what I did) I would ask a bloody builder. Anyone would do that I think, because it's much about components, not just "amp models".

Sorry for wasting your time.

[Zippy]

So we're done here?