Who works on solid state amps?

[Cliff Schecht]

Just curious really. Right now I have a cheapie Fender Acoustasonic Junior on the bench that has an issue with the negative power supply. I'd have fixed this tonight but I'm out of solder braid . Also, of course, the cheap input jack to the first channel has broken. I'm going to replace the jack with a standard mono switching jack and call this fixed as well. This amp (luckily) is going to be an easy fix and easy money.

This brings me to my point. It seems a lot of guys flat out refuse to work on SS stuff which leaves a lot of work for me. I've been working with discrete stuff for a long time now so I usually know where to start looking and can troubleshoot the problem pretty quick. But, since most SS amps are an absolute beast to get inside (read: cheap Fenders!), I charge a little bit more than my standard bench fee for SS amps. I try to be fair and take into account the cost of the amp but I also have to be fair to myself. Another thing to consider is that aside from a few less cheap amps, most SS amps are single-sided PCB's which require you to pull a bunch of on-board connectors to pull up the board and unsolder stuff. This can take a lot of time to figure out with feature-rich amps!


FWIW it's not like I'm ripping anybody off either, the average price for my repairs is $40-60 depending on how much time I put into the amp and whether I do a "full service" (check bias and such). An expensive repair is $100 and that means I sank a lot of time into an amp. My low price keeps work coming back in the door and spending cash in my wallet.

I'm curious how guys/shops that deal with both tube and SS amplifier repair deal with the rates they charge. Do others charge more or less for SS stuff when compared with tube? Does it matter whether the tube amp is PCB or PTP?

[camerongrieve]

I'm by no means a professional, but I have to say that I potentially could've had a fairly hard time with a friend's Vox Valvetronix 50 (12AX7 pre/DSP FX/SS power amp)
It wasn't easy to get into, there were PCB boards mounted all over the place.

I'm glad to say the fault was obvious and easily fixed - a solder joint on one of the ribbon cables had removed itself from the board. Luckily it was very easily accessible as soon as I had taken the back off.

If I had to go deeper however, I probably wouldn't have bothered, and told him to buy a real amp instead :-p

It did make me think - what would a tech have charged to go digging through that mess? And at what point do you say "just dont worry about it"?



Cameron

[Reeltarded]

I am kind of like you then, Cameron. Because I repair instruments and do my own amp work, people think I can and/or will do anything.

I would rather shave my legs with broken bottles than work on another PCB Fender or similar amp. I don't mind working on SS circuits though. Most of that for me is simply replacing transistors, or something obvious on my own amps by luck of the draw.

I charge $65 an hour for things I know about, but my clock stops for 55 minutes every hour when the bill gets paid, because people are poor, work is slow, and I am as stupid as the day is long.

I don't have much intrest in understanding solid-state beyond what I already know. Each minute of work might require 100 hours of research into a simple circuit, and that is where I stand. (I think)

[cbass]

Most of the SS stuff I get for repair is PA's/mixers.Usually straightfoward to work on.Taking them a part and putting them back together sucks
so I charge morethan a guitar amp.


I just repaired a marshall valvestate and actually wasn't that bad to work on.It was no worse and actualy easier than a lot of PCB tube amps.


I am by no means a pro I'm just a dumb carpenter but I fix electronics on the side.

[NickC]

A lot of the big factory authorized "service centers" won't do board-level repairs. They'll isolate the problem to a particular board/modular component and replace the whole thing rather than fix one faulty component on the board. That drives up cost of repair for the consumer. For cheap, mass-produced products the customer often chooses to scrap it and replace the product rather than deal with the hassle, and uncertainty, of repair.

I thinks it's great that there are still folks willing to do board-level fixes in this day-and-age. I salute you! But you do have to charge enough to cover your time and materials. It's not the repair-persons fault that many of these products are not engineered for ease of service.

[chief mushroom cloud]

I'm w/ Cameron and Reeltarded...
SS electronics isn't hard, but is TIME CONSUMING.....sometimes it's simple...sometimes it's not.
Just getting to the problem circuit is physically time consuming (thank you Fender...may I have another?.
My experience is that, unless it's quality vintage pro audio gear...it's not worth it....the way they build modern stuff now, is obviously NOT designed to be serviceable. I charge $65hr, and there are times the final bill is more than the customer can afford or just buy another working one off eBay. Then I have to compromise on the invoice and there's time I will never get back (time IS money).
I suppose if I didn't do design work in aerospace sector already...maybe I'd lower my rate....if there's nothing else...you do what you gotta do for whatever you can get.

The funny thing is...when I open up that kind of gear...it's clear to me where they could have designed in servicability w/ a little more upfront cost and little additional production cost. WTF is with these people...wtf is with our education system....it's the disposable iPhone generation...sigh...

now I'm in a bad mood...


oh yea...in re: to initial question....I would like to charge more for SS....but the customer can't or won't afford it (for reasons stated above)...so I JUST SAY NO to SS gear (unless it's really nice pro audio gear, and that customer base doesn't have a problem w/ service costs).

[Cliff Schecht]

I'm kind of in a place right now where my time is not worth very much unfortunately. I've got a EE degree already with lots of SS experience (my dad got me started young) but as of now I'm an underpaid masters student. I'm getting towards the end of my research but I still have about 6 months until I graduate and get a big boy job. I have lots of free time in-between school being that all I have left to do is test a few chips and write a thesis (I'm done with classes). Instead of getting a real job (highly frowned upon with researchers in my group), I take in pretty much whatever broken equipment I can to fix for extra spending cash. Aside from one PA that I didn't want to troubleshoot, I'm yet to encounter a piece of equipment that I couldn't fix (at least with respect to work that was commissioned to me from local shops and such).

I've been considering making a Craigslist post to find additional work but I don't want strangers coming to my house and don't want to drive 20 miles to pick up peoples $150 SS amps. I'm sure there is lots of work out there though and I could sure use the money. How should I go about handling these transactions? Pick up the amps at peoples houses? After being robbed multiple times in this shithole town I'm a bit suspicious of strangers, but I like their moneys and I do good work!

[Gibsonman63]

Cliff,

You may talk to some of your local music stores. I know that GC down here in Houston ships a lot of thier vintage amps to Dallas to get worked on and they subcontract out a lot of the guitar repairs to a local guy who works out of his house. Even the stores that have techs, usually have a large backlog. Also, the music stores are a nice, safe place to meet, or should be.

[renshen1957]

I would rather shave my legs with broken bottles than work on another PCB Fender or similar amp.

Amen. Fender PCBs have undersized parts, inadequate traces, and are just plain cheaply executed.

I admire the repairman/builder that was on ebay who took re-issue tube amps out the PCB's cheap E-caps, signal caps, and rebuilt the amp with a circuit card, equivalent vintage caps, E-caps and resistors and built the amp better to BF standards the way Fender electric instruments used too. Even the CBS Silver Face amps by and large are superior to Fenders cheapo non custom shop stuff.

I had a repair, a red knob amp, that out of frustration of the parts and PCB board, I rebuilt as point to point wired amp at a financial loss; they couldn't believe the difference.

As to Cliff's comments:

I usually explain that unless the SS guitar amp has some collectors value to it, it isn't worth their money or my aggravation.

The majority of SS amps are beginner amps which quite frankly would be better utilized as land fill material (this stuff comes under electronic waste) and it would be cheaper to buy something from MF or GC and they would have a warranty or replacement options.

Although not cheap, I feel the same way about Line Six amps.

I don't see any forums or websites dedicated to building new SS amps by some metal player or pedal steel guitar players. Maybe I don't look that hard for them either.

You might find some people building SS or hybrid amps in Hi-Fi.

Put me in the I don't work on SS or PCB amps with a few exceptions.

Ampeg made some early PCB amps and so did Selmer tube amps,

Ampeg made some very good SS amps heads. 1960's

USVox/Thomas organ made some amps that sound good enough if full of cheap parts and transistors (many no longer produced) and have some value from Beatlesque/Vox vibe.

The UK Vox transistor amps are quite good and fetch some good money (the ones the Beatles recorded with) and funnily enough the Fender PA system used and seen in the Beatles last public Rooftop performance gather good money.

I will only work on these since there is some value and the owners won't die of shock when I quote them an estimate.

Best Regards,

Steve

PS Actually, from time to time someone comes with their beloved (70/80/90s) old SS stereo amp or component with either the right or left channel blown and expect miracles more frequently than naught. From time to time, I am half tempted, but you can't hope to meet someone's nostalgic memories as to how it used to sound.

After rebuilding with quality components, improved or discrete discrete equivalents to equal some audiophile equipment, the owner is disappointed it doesn't sound as he remember it.

For those individuals I suggest trying to find a working component or old SS Stereo on ebay.

[chief mushroom cloud]

I'm kind of in a place right now where my time is not worth very much unfortunately. I've got a EE degree already with lots of SS experience .......
Instead of getting a real job (highly frowned upon with researchers in my group).....
After being robbed multiple times in this shithole town......

Jesus, Cliff.....get outta Dodge asap!
I remember when I was doing classes, tutoring, and repairing friends vcrs, stereos, etc for like, 'min wage!' LOL....you do what you gotta do. I'm with ya there...but why do your colleagues frown upon getting work? Who are these people? Move to LA and get a job at SpaceX (I don't work there...yet)...and work on pro audio gear on the side! Live on the beach! Stay outta south central, tho.....stay west o' the 405. Ski! Surf! Chill out at Galdstones outside Malibu!

[Reeltarded]

Cliff, make your contact point the music store that you work a deal with for a bench space. Tell them your rate is (a) and let them handle the billing with a small % addition, plus a smaller % from you. (a+%+%=safe work space)

And get a concealed carry permit.. I was robbed too.

Hey, Steve, I need a manager.. and you are much smarter than the ones I know.

Call me! lol

[teemuk]

...most SS amps are single-sided PCB's which require you to pull a bunch of on-board connectors to pull up the board and unsolder stuff.

I dunno, in my experience a lot of tube amps built on PCB are like that too.

...And, IMO, it's still way better than some rat's nest point-to-point thingy that has no component labeling whatsoever, obscure circuit, and in which in order to change just one part you actually need to unsolder (and then resolder) globs and globs of components tangled together in a manner that leaves you more than a bit worried about the rigidity of the connections.