I have an idea that's been marinating in my head lately:
I want to take my old Marshall 1960A and put 4 different speakers in it:
G12M Heritage (96 dB)
Scumback H55 (99 dB)
Tayden Ace 25 (99 dB)
Weber 12F150 (probably around 99 dB)
I'd like a 16-step Lorin pot in the cab so I can try a bunch of different combinations.
I'm also going to open up the back so I can choose between open or closed back.
Before anyone gets their knickers in a knot I'd better say that I'll be using this cab mainly to test different speakers/play around with/record - not for live use (I probably won't be running all four speakers too often).
I think I'll put the Greenbacks to the left - G12M top and H55 bottom - and the Tayden and Weber to the right.
Now here are my 2 questions:
Firstly, is it possible to hook all speakers up to a single Lorin pot so that I get all of these combinations?
1. G12M (16 ohm)
2. H55 (16 ohm)
3. Tayden (16 ohm)
4. Weber (16 ohm)
5. G12M + H55 (parallel, 8 ohm)
6. Tayden + Weber (parallel, 8 ohm)
7. G12M + Tayden (parallel, 8 ohm)
8. G12M + Weber (parallel, 8 ohm)
9. H55 + Tayden (parallel, 8 ohm)
10. H55 + Weber (parallel, 8 ohm)
11. G12M + H55 + Tayden (parallel, 5.3 ohm)
12. G12M + H55 + Weber (parallel, 5.3 ohm)
13. H55 + Tayden + Weber (parallel, 5.3 ohm)
14. G12M + Tayden + Weber (parallel, 5.3 ohm)
15. All four of them (series and parallel, 16 ohm)
16. Dummy load (a 50 watt 16 ohm resistor)
A wiring diagram for an electronics illiterate like myself would be much appreciated! (Please note that I really suck at these things...)
Secondly, will the G12M be totally drowned out when I mix it with the other speakers - them having a much higher sensitivity? (BTW - I saw that Celestion just started selling the Heritage G12H, 75 Hz, 100 dB - maybe a better match here? I already have a G12M though that I'd really like to put to use...) Has anyone tried combining 2 or more speakers with as big a difference in sensitivity as 4 dB in the same cab? Let's skip the physics lesson here and concentrate on what you've heard!
4x12 with 4 different speakers?
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ettepostkonto
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4x12 with 4 different speakers?
Last edited by ettepostkonto on Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
I built a similar cab in '06 for a small amplifier line using a 4x12 sized cabinet half sealed each side running a single 12" and single 10" speaker with a 9 position 4 pole switch to select the different speaker combinations. It worked well to a point but keep in mind in a studio and even live enviroment, you just mic the speaker you want to hear. So at the end of the day it's a lot of work for basically an expensive gemic. The position used most often is the one that turnes on all 4 speaker... why?... it's the loudest! 
your speaker combination will be determined by which position and how it interacts with each pole. draw it out on graph paper and make sure it all works. You may need to use 4ohm speakers so when you run two you have 8ohms or 8ohm (x2) = 16ohms since they will be adding unless you add in phase switches and then you'll need a manual to remember how to operate the cabinet.
your speaker combination will be determined by which position and how it interacts with each pole. draw it out on graph paper and make sure it all works. You may need to use 4ohm speakers so when you run two you have 8ohms or 8ohm (x2) = 16ohms since they will be adding unless you add in phase switches and then you'll need a manual to remember how to operate the cabinet.
My Daughter Build Stone Henge
Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
here is how the switch was laid out
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My Daughter Build Stone Henge
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Reeltarded
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Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
Open back Marshall cabinet is a flubby wishful knarl. The post is important, the back is important.
Until they became unobtanium, I replaced the bottom right speaker of the top cabinet in a pair of cabs with a 15-20 wt greenback from the Marshall pa cabs. This was for recording. They sound great until they don't sound anymore ever again.
^^^^^^^
So, to recap, load what you like, seal the cabinet up, and forget the switch. Mic what you like, change what you don't.
You are better off with single speaker cabs for special use, and you will wish you didn't spend the money.
Pick one, and go.
Until they became unobtanium, I replaced the bottom right speaker of the top cabinet in a pair of cabs with a 15-20 wt greenback from the Marshall pa cabs. This was for recording. They sound great until they don't sound anymore ever again.
^^^^^^^
So, to recap, load what you like, seal the cabinet up, and forget the switch. Mic what you like, change what you don't.
You are better off with single speaker cabs for special use, and you will wish you didn't spend the money.
Pick one, and go.
Signatures have a 255 character limit that I could abuse, but I am not Cecil B. DeMille.
Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
Agree +1
While you are at it. Seal the inside seams with silicone or caulk air tight matters. secure the center brace to the front and back of the cabinet to prevent low end rattle with you crank it up and palm mute.
While you are at it. Seal the inside seams with silicone or caulk air tight matters. secure the center brace to the front and back of the cabinet to prevent low end rattle with you crank it up and palm mute.
My Daughter Build Stone Henge
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ettepostkonto
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Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
Thanks for the replies!
What you've got to remember is I want to use the cab to try out the speakers individually against different amps - this is more like four 1x12s and maybe a few 2x12s rolled into one for portability and plain ease of use - than a regular 4x12.
I want the open back option simply because I usually like the sound of open back cabs better than closed back cabs nowadays.
So guys please forget about the Marshall stack type of thing - wont be happening...
What you've got to remember is I want to use the cab to try out the speakers individually against different amps - this is more like four 1x12s and maybe a few 2x12s rolled into one for portability and plain ease of use - than a regular 4x12.
I want the open back option simply because I usually like the sound of open back cabs better than closed back cabs nowadays.
So guys please forget about the Marshall stack type of thing - wont be happening...
Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
if you want to use the cab as a demo cab. a single 12" box would be best. Keep in mind in a shared box volume the speakers still interact with each other even when not turned on.
You could easily make a few enclosures with wing nuts to make speaker mounting quick. I wouldn't recommend making the sealed enclosure also double as an open back because it's a weak point for a true seal. If the box leaks it'll effect the tone. If you really want a great sounding speaker cab. Read the Specification notes and make the box volume correct for the speaker based on manufacture's recomendation. if you a hell bent on an open back box. the material of the wood is your tone. Try an aged pine like used by fender in the early years, it's a very toneful wood and cheap.
I understand why you are thinking about your design but IMHO I think you will end up very dissapointed in the practal application for your needs.
The switch you are hoping for in order to handle the voltage you require will probably need to be custom manufactured. get your credit card out one off's are not cheap!
You could easily make a few enclosures with wing nuts to make speaker mounting quick. I wouldn't recommend making the sealed enclosure also double as an open back because it's a weak point for a true seal. If the box leaks it'll effect the tone. If you really want a great sounding speaker cab. Read the Specification notes and make the box volume correct for the speaker based on manufacture's recomendation. if you a hell bent on an open back box. the material of the wood is your tone. Try an aged pine like used by fender in the early years, it's a very toneful wood and cheap.
I understand why you are thinking about your design but IMHO I think you will end up very dissapointed in the practal application for your needs.
The switch you are hoping for in order to handle the voltage you require will probably need to be custom manufactured. get your credit card out one off's are not cheap!
My Daughter Build Stone Henge
Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
if you want to use the cab as a demo cab. a single 12" box would be best. Keep in mind in a shared box volume the speakers still interact with each other even when not turned on.
You could easily make a few enclosures with wing nuts to make speaker mounting quick. I wouldn't recommend making the sealed enclosure also double as an open back because it's a weak point for a true seal. If the box leaks it'll effect the tone. If you really want a great sounding speaker cab. Read the Specification notes and make the box volume correct for the speaker based on manufacture's recomendation. if you a hell bent on an open back box. the material of the wood is your tone. Try an aged pine like used by fender in the early years, it's a very toneful wood and cheap.
I understand why you are thinking about your design but IMHO I think you will end up very dissapointed in the practal application for your needs.
The switch you are hoping for in order to handle the voltage you require will probably need to be custom manufactured. get your credit card out one off's are not cheap!
You could easily make a few enclosures with wing nuts to make speaker mounting quick. I wouldn't recommend making the sealed enclosure also double as an open back because it's a weak point for a true seal. If the box leaks it'll effect the tone. If you really want a great sounding speaker cab. Read the Specification notes and make the box volume correct for the speaker based on manufacture's recomendation. if you a hell bent on an open back box. the material of the wood is your tone. Try an aged pine like used by fender in the early years, it's a very toneful wood and cheap.
I understand why you are thinking about your design but IMHO I think you will end up very dissapointed in the practal application for your needs.
The switch you are hoping for in order to handle the voltage you require will probably need to be custom manufactured. get your credit card out one off's are not cheap!
My Daughter Build Stone Henge
Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
I'm in the middle of doing something very similar, and had a lot of the same questions, so... thanks!
If I can do a slight hijack, my 4 x 12 would also be for recording, with 2 x 12 SRO's and 2 x 12 Fanes. These come from a BF Twin and an SA-212 - I need to get the cabs in the iso room so I can use the combos as heads, and use the speakers with other amps.
I'm building the cab out of birch ply, and had planned to do a half-open, half-closed config as well, with the sealed side really well-sealed. The idea would be to be able to use one or both of each pair, the single at 8 ohms and the pair at 4, to match different amps.
Been scratching my head about the simplest way to set it up. The easiest I can come up with would be to wire each pair in parallel, with a 125V-rated toggle on the wire to the second speaker or use a three-conductor phone jack to break the link to the second speaker. Two jacks, one for each pair.
I'm also planning on doing a couple of cabs out of pine for some other speakers I have lying around. But - the fewer cabinets, the fewer finger joints!
Am I nuts?
If I can do a slight hijack, my 4 x 12 would also be for recording, with 2 x 12 SRO's and 2 x 12 Fanes. These come from a BF Twin and an SA-212 - I need to get the cabs in the iso room so I can use the combos as heads, and use the speakers with other amps.
I'm building the cab out of birch ply, and had planned to do a half-open, half-closed config as well, with the sealed side really well-sealed. The idea would be to be able to use one or both of each pair, the single at 8 ohms and the pair at 4, to match different amps.
Been scratching my head about the simplest way to set it up. The easiest I can come up with would be to wire each pair in parallel, with a 125V-rated toggle on the wire to the second speaker or use a three-conductor phone jack to break the link to the second speaker. Two jacks, one for each pair.
I'm also planning on doing a couple of cabs out of pine for some other speakers I have lying around. But - the fewer cabinets, the fewer finger joints!
Am I nuts?
Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
The very simple way would be to use SPDT hi rated switches and hook up all the speakers to a single 1/4" input jack.
label each switch and use it turn the speaker on and off. becareful of ohm load with only 3 speakers running
label each switch and use it turn the speaker on and off. becareful of ohm load with only 3 speakers running
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My Daughter Build Stone Henge
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ettepostkonto
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Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
Yeah - I thought about that, but since I need to run a pair in series with the other pair (2 + 2) in the 4x12 mode in order to get 16 ohms, that wont work - or am I mistaken?
One way around that would be to have a separate jack for when (if?) I want all 4 speakers...
Someone on another forum said that I need to short circuit the speakers that are not in use - otherwise their cones move counter to the active ones. Any thoughts on that?
One way around that would be to have a separate jack for when (if?) I want all 4 speakers...
Someone on another forum said that I need to short circuit the speakers that are not in use - otherwise their cones move counter to the active ones. Any thoughts on that?
Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
IF you want to run the speaker serial / parrallel Add a phase switch between the DPDT switch and the speaker.
Shorting or adding a dummy load to the unused speakers will not prevent them from moving or bleeding into the active working speakers tone.
The only way you can prevent the unused speakers from bleeding in or effecting the tone of the active speakers is to make each speaker it's own sealed enclosure so it is not effected by the air pressure and in no way effects the speakers around it.
Amplifiers require a load.
speakers do not require any load they are the load.
Shorting or adding a dummy load to the unused speakers will not prevent them from moving or bleeding into the active working speakers tone.
The only way you can prevent the unused speakers from bleeding in or effecting the tone of the active speakers is to make each speaker it's own sealed enclosure so it is not effected by the air pressure and in no way effects the speakers around it.
Amplifiers require a load.
speakers do not require any load they are the load.
My Daughter Build Stone Henge
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ettepostkonto
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Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
Thanks for the info!
Thing is, all combinations above use either one speaker or several (2 or 3) running paralell - EXCEPT when all four are connected, then it's the usual 4x12 connection: 2 in paralell (to get 8 ohm) and those in series with the other 2 that are also in parallel to each other (8 ohm).
This gets me 16 ohm total, 8 + 8 = 16.
That's why I'm thinking maybe just another separate jack with standard 4x12 wiring?
About the other speakers moving - I thought it was some kind of electrical issue - not a physical (due to air movement)...?
Thing is, all combinations above use either one speaker or several (2 or 3) running paralell - EXCEPT when all four are connected, then it's the usual 4x12 connection: 2 in paralell (to get 8 ohm) and those in series with the other 2 that are also in parallel to each other (8 ohm).
This gets me 16 ohm total, 8 + 8 = 16.
That's why I'm thinking maybe just another separate jack with standard 4x12 wiring?
About the other speakers moving - I thought it was some kind of electrical issue - not a physical (due to air movement)...?
Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
speakers don't move on thier own. the only way to make a speaker move. is 1.) voltage i.e. your amplifier is hooked up to it. or 2.) and not really the speaker moving, but more of a reaction to the pressure of the air inside the sealed enclosure of another speaker moving.
When two or move speakers share the same sealed enclosure. If only one speaker is working they still react to the air pressure which can effect the tone and response.
If you wire up the speakers series parrallel to a seperate 1/4" jack they will void the switching system as they will be constantly wired to all work. you have to break contant to remove a speaker from the chain.
When two or move speakers share the same sealed enclosure. If only one speaker is working they still react to the air pressure which can effect the tone and response.
If you wire up the speakers series parrallel to a seperate 1/4" jack they will void the switching system as they will be constantly wired to all work. you have to break contant to remove a speaker from the chain.
My Daughter Build Stone Henge
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ettepostkonto
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Re: 4x12 with 4 different speakers?
But what if I have an "on switch" for that 4x12 jack - that cancels the other signal chain when I switch it on?