sozo premiums in

[iknowjohnny]

Ok, i don't mean to doubt you guys. There are some really good people here with obviously good ears and lots of knowledge. But i gotta tell you, the $50+ worth of premium sozos i just installed in place of the standard sozos today just don't sound very different if at all, and maybe not quite as good. Now granted, the standards have had about 6 or so hours of break in time. But if the premiums are so much better shouldn't that have at least been obvious? If they are truly better shouldn't they have at least matched the standard sozos that broke in for 6 hours? But they actually don't quite sound as good to my ear. Not that they have a different sound...it's that same sound as the standards but less of it if that makes sense. maybe like the standards did when new. Shouldn't there be a obvious difference?

Anyways i will leave them in for a good 6 hours or so and if by then i don't here what i think is any improvement over the standards i will replace the standards and see how they sound after trying the premiums. Luckily i didn't cut the leads too short so i could make a new board is i really like them. But if i don't find them any better i may put them up for sale and try and re-coupe some of the 50 bucks. Oh well, lesson learned......or maybe it's just a matter of time, i dunno yet. In any case, sozos are friggin' awesome.

[Cliff Schecht]

6 hours? Be patient man, things like this take at least 100 hours to break in (that's not a solid number btw, just a guestimate).

[mcrracer]

Sozos own website says to burn them in for approx. 100 hours. You can do that out side of the amp or in the amp.

[JamesHealey]

Hahahaha! 50.00 down the swany! The sozo do sound great buy they are too expensive for me!

Lcr pc/hv/s/wf all the way

[martin manning]

Sozos own website says to burn them in for approx. 100 hours. You can do that out side of the amp or in the amp.

Hmmm... Mabe that's how long they figure it takes to get through the five stages of grieving? ;^)

[passfan]

Sozos own website says to burn them in for approx. 100 hours. You can do that out side of the amp or in the amp.

Would you set them up outside of the amp just like you were reforming them or is there some other method ?

[Super_Reverb]

So, one question from me is are your ears and brain sensitive enough and your memory good enough to detect a change in sound from time_0 to time_100_hrs?

I have played guitars and amps selling for $5k-10K and at some point, the incremental sound improvement per dollar is lost on me.

When I listen to the same album on the same audio system over a period of days, my perception is different day to day due to a number of factors.

Maybe my ears are not as good as some. How much is too much to spend for signal caps?

cheers,

rob

[mcrracer]

Sozos own website says to burn them in for approx. 100 hours. You can do that out side of the amp or in the amp.

Would you set them up outside of the amp just like you were reforming them or is there some other method ?

Some guys set up a jig to use DC voltage, I use a jig using AC voltage.
To the guys who don't think Sozos or any other high dollar caps make a difference....Don't use 'em! Everything is not for everybody. I use different caps in different builds.

[cyclone_cj]

You should put a couple of different NEW coupling cap types of the same value on a rotary switch and wire it in temporarily. Even a "spawn of satan" ceramic disk. Have someone else turn the switch while you listen. See if you can hear the marketing BS. "Burning in" coupling caps?

The changes in line voltage from your neighbor using power tools has more effect on the tone than the cap type.

[vibratoking]

So, one question from me is are your ears and brain sensitive enough and your memory good enough to detect a change in sound from time_0 to time_100_hrs?

Mine is not, but that doesn't mean the sound didn't get better. Just that I can't really recognize it.

I have played guitars and amps selling for $5k-10K and at some point, the incremental sound improvement per dollar is lost on me.

Lost on me too.

Maybe my ears are not as good as some. How much is too much to spend for signal caps?

If you feel like you've been taken after the purchase, then you spent too much IMO. Perhaps we need to read a book on psycho-acoustics in order to fully understand the phenomenon.

[iknowjohnny]

6 hours? Be patient man, things like this take at least 100 hours to break in

I understand, but the point was that the standard sozos have been in my amp for 6 hours and that unless that can make for a huge difference, then the premiums weren't much different and possibly NOT quite as good to my ear because the standards may have sounded a hair smoother and better when i removed them and put the premiums in. The top seemed a tad harsh by comparison unless it was my ears at that moment or whatever. But i sure don't hear any notable different worth the extra $.

I hope i'm wrong and who knows, i may well be in time. They say 100 hours but for all we know theres a notable change within the first few hours. I think i did read somewhere that the majority of break in happens earlier and later hours it's more subtle. We shall see. If not i tossed 50 bucks which is a drag, but to be honest, if the standards turn out to be better and i put them back, my total cost will be around $80. And at $80 i consider it a big win because they did to my tone exactly what i have tried to accomplish for 3 years in this design. So i'm not sad about the $80 for what i got for my money, i'm sad knowing $50 of it may have been wasted money if it turns out the standards are as good or better.

To those who are questioning my buying even the standards because you think it's like the point of diminishing returns, well, you can believe what you want. I've been playing since around 1970 and spend most of that time playing every imaginable bar and club in my area. My ears are tweaked and i am long since familiar with placebo effect. I would have no problem betting my life and the FACT the sozos made the biggest tonal improvement of anything i've done. Don't know how else to say it, but i fully agree that mention of point of diminishing returns when spending more $ on gutars and amps. I prefer cheaper guitars in general and believe many import fender reissues can sound and play as good as the foolishly priced USA stuff. But that has zero to do with this.

[selloutrr]

I think the part you are missing is that they are a MUST for getting as close to the Aston or molded blues in vintage Fender circuits.
They are not a night and day difference, but they do match the old caps the closest of any new production currently available.
What you should be hearing is the detail / image is richer, more defined, granted you did already have the basic SOZO so it's less noticable, but your high end is also smoother. As the caps form and break in over time they will continue to have this beautiful response and not soften up turning muddy or harsh.
What you paid for was a reliable toneful capacitor. keep in mind at $6 a capacitor they are far from breaking the bank, similar caps of that quality will run you $40+ each.

[iknowjohnny]

Well like i said, i DO realize what i got for the money. What surprises me is those who say they're too expensive. But look at the standards. I now know they are close if not as good as the premiums, and they are only about $2 each. So you can recap a typical marshall style amp for under $20. How thats too rich for anyone's blood is beyond me, especially considering they're the single best improvement tweak i have yet heard. People will pay that much for some fancy pot or switch or crazier yet, 5 times that for a single nos tube. And while i have only uses a few nos tubes, none made this much difference. So again, i LOVE these caps and their value.

The premiums would be worth every penny too if the standards weren't available. But since they ARE available at less than 1/2 the cost, then the premiums are a waste of money *IF* they aren't any better. Thats all i'm trying to convey here.

EDIT: on a side note, i didn't put the .1uf caps in the NFB or the PI yet because i never got those when i got the standards. I did get them with the premiums but left them out so i could get a true comparison between the standards and premiums. So in actuality the cost wasn't as much more than the standards as i first said. The two .1's were by far the most expensive at i think $7 each as i recall. So instead of $52 for the premiums, it was more like $38.

[Alexo]

Disconnect your power tube grids from the pi coupling caps (but don't disconnect the bias supply), ground the "output" side of these caps,, plug a cd/mp3 player into the input, crank it and let them burn in silently for a few days. I like to pretend that the music makes a difference (it might!), so it's non-stop Hendrix on mine.

[Colossal]

Johnny,

Give'em time, they will start to sound more clear, less congested and trebly. They do warm up considerably and you'll hear that musical velvety fuzz on the edges . I used a customer as a control who doesn't know one dielectric from another. All he knows is that the Marshall 50W JMP Plexi I built for him blows away his other '71 and '72 vintage Marshalls (I used Vintage Sozos throughout). Whenever I visit him, I can definitely tell the difference in the amp from when it was new on the bench with about 10 hours on it to having been played for a while. It sounds just killer now and the guy probably has a couple of hundred hours on it.

As for cost, yes they may be too costly for some and that's ok if they don't perceive the value. You are also paying for a quality (American) made product with good precision from part to part (that's important to me). I get the whole pyschoacoustics thing and some don't hear a difference. I think Sozos do sound different than a Mallory 150M even though both are polyester. But there is no wrong answer at the end of the day. Sure money does come into it and I'm not saying a Komet K50 (built with Mallory 150Ms) sucks because they are really good sounding amps. Just saying that in my humble experience and to my ear, I feel the cost of the quality Sozos is justified. But I too use different caps for different apps!