Possible 4x12 incarnations

[boldaslove6789]

Has anyone ever done this type of 4x12 before?

I know it sucks to lug a 4x12 around, usually not worth using because of the sonic characteristics they have.

This idea would further improve the response of the 4x12 and make it usable again.

Also I think mixing speakers would be essential with this idea and it would further the range and response even more.

I drew it up last night. Please give me your input.


**NOTE** The ovals would be ports,
The lines would signify a sealed speaker,
or a separation in the cab, or both

[M Fowler]

My first impression is I don't how four 12 inch speakers are going to fit.

[boldaslove6789]

Well its not to scale , imagine it like a marshall 1960a cab but a bit smaller

[Structo]

I don't understand the sealed compartments and or the closed back.

412's are sealed for a reason, one of them is tone.

I think a well designed 412 can sound excellent with the right speakers.

You also have to understand making a good speaker cabinet isn't just a matter of slapping six boards together and mounting speakers in them.
There are design parameters that should be followed for each speaker type, so the box fits the speaker so to say.
Such as interior volume, porting, sealed, baffle thickness, front vs rear loading, etc.

The reason they are fading from the live music seen is due to better PA systems, volume concerns and better designed 2x12 and 1x12 cabinets.
Many times a 412 is just too much!

Lately I have noticed a few slant 2x12 boxes that are interesting but you have to watch the construction of those as it can throw the phasing of the sound waves off if not done correctly.

I really want to build a 2x12 Thiele box for my two EVM 12's.
I'm sure it would weigh a ton but I am not currently gigging so it would be just for me.
Even 1x12 boxes have come a long way with many able to take the power and make great tone.
I just always thought a 1x12 looked wimpy!

BTW, I am not trying to shoot down your idea.
If you think it will work, build one and try it out.
You never know, it might be the next great thing.
But, be cautious posting stuff like that on a public forum, the whole world is watching.

[boldaslove6789]

Thanks for the input, I have already built a 4x12 like this (sealed/ported) and I think that it worked very well compared to a standard sealed 4x12.

I definitely understand that speaker cabinets aren't just thrown together. I know that a lot or R&D goes into them. Especially for speaker choice.

I do agree that a good' ol 'regular 4x12 can sound wonderful. Given the right speaker,the right room, etc

I had read in a guitar player magazine that Jerry Garcia had used
open back 4x12's in late 60's in the studio.It is speculation whether he used them live. If he did it was only on a rare occasion

Jerry had told Dicky and Duane from the Allmans that he liked this configuration in the studio early on in about 69-70. Dicky used this config. extensively for the better part of his career too. Of course he didn't really do what I am doing.His were not sealed on one side or ported. He had used JBL's or Altec's in a half open back Marshall cab. Thus giving him a more open sound (well to my ears anyways). This isn't proven,and you really can't tell if he was using this config. or not live.

This sparked my interest and I started screwing around with the Idea a few years ago. I sold the cab and forgot about it for a while.

Now I am thinking about building another. There is certainly better technology with speaker cabs these days and I am really just looking for input for my own personal in devour.

I wanted to know if anyone has done this before,their experience, and what worked and didn't. I do value your opinion although and I respect the heads up. I know how thieving people can be on the internet. Its not my intention to make this a product line,just a DIY project. I hate the fact that the mainstream thinks that they only have few options, I try to stray away from the norm any chance I get. People are even spoon fed stories about d-amps and that "If you want to sound like Robben here is the formula" The sound you achieve depends on your chops, not what gear you use (that is a different story for a different thread/day though).

[M Fowler]

Oh I've built a lot of cabinets but not going to show them to you guys for review

Build what you want and play what you brung is my philosophy.

[selloutrr]

The original "Marshall" 4x12 that shaped the tone of arena rock was made to fit... and had nothing to do with correct air volume.

This design has been done on and off threw the years by bands.. mostly guys with heavy drug habits and power tools.. only to regret it later when it came time for resale value.
tonally.... at the volume a 4x12 is made to be played... crank it up or go home! if you have a nice cab... it takes energy to make it sing.

It's not a bad idea in any means but if it's to save weight the few .oz you would save hardle become a factor. and probably will get cancelled out with a set a quality handles.

basically what you are purposing is a dual 2x12 cab one open back one sealed. if you want to hear it stack to dumble cabs together and seal one back.

It's going to come down to the speakers and the amplifier far more then the box design, unless you take into account speaker box volume, and truly voice the box to the speaker... but that removes the standard 4x12 from the conversation and will leave you with a very large cab. as long as your cabinet is well constructed not buzzy and has a well made sound board.

[boldaslove6789]

Build what you want and play what you brung .

Hell yeah +1

[boldaslove6789]

Well I was thinking renewable wood ie"hemp". Much lighter and 10% more durable.

[Structo]

Does it taste better?

[boldaslove6789]

LOL IDK if it does or not, Maybe when its (i'm) toasted I'll check it out

[Structo]

I hope I didn't rain on your parade.
Innovations spring from crazy ideas, not that yours is crazy.
The only way to ever tell is to build it and see how it sounds.
I know they can just about model everything on computers nowadays but it sure seems that the human ear and eyes still are the final judge no matter what the design.

[fperron_kt88]

just to stirr-up the water some and suggest another reason why the 4x12 become what it is... I wrote a blog entry about 6 months about that...

Disclaimer: written by me. You take what you want from this... http://www.cydone.com/blog-cost-analysi ... d-roll-way

My take: the 4x12 design is driven by cost more than anything else.

FWIW: Try removing 2 speakers from a 4x12. Kind of a detuned-thingy. Works very well for a tranwreck clone for cleanish settings (jazz-box comping for example) and lighter too.

[selloutrr]

It sounds good with two removed because it becomes ported and stops starving the speaker for box volume

[Mill Creek Audio]

It's a great idea if done right. Boogie made a 2X12 and a 4X12 in the 80's that was slanted with the top cab open back and the bottom sealed and ported. I invite anyone to go try one if you can. They made two versions, one with a Black Shadow (Celestion) on top and a Celestion on the bottom and another with an EVM in the bottom. Although I love EVM's they don't work in this cab, try the first one. It is the most balanced, widest freq response cab I have ever played, in some ways similar to an EVM in a theile cab but sounds way better with OD sounds. I have 3 of the 2X12 cabs (one with Warehouse speakers) and recently had a shootout with over 2 dozen combos and cabs, nothing even close. It sounds amazing with the Dumble type of amps as well as any other. They are a little oversized but on wheels and they are fairly light. Two local players went and found some for themselves after hearing mine, they can be found for around $300. I urge anybody looking for a 2X12 or 4X12 to check one out, the 2X12 will fill a room better than a typical 4X12 and I think you'll be suprised. I guess if there is serious interest I will measure and post plans. Yo Greg!