What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

[Reeltarded]

Caps, not resistors.

mostly correct .. but MF can also deteriorate sound

Misunderstood. The TS caps will almost always react differently because of the insanity that is induced right there.

A cranked plexi with a couple dB boost. A scientific instrument. Too many caveats and too many unargued variables.. so easy to find the lowest hanging fruit. Impossible to setup the deeper experiment. The method I described has been used by me for microphone placement, signal chain matching, pole testing 3rd devices.. everything.

The 'caps only' assertion was about identifying an easy test that will result in something obvious.

Of course resistors make a difference, just not this much.

[martin manning]

AFAIK noise is the only measurable quantity that differentiates resistors in this context, so either noise is somehow responsible for audio distortion, or there isn't anything to be heard other than the noise itself.

[TUBEDUDE]

A second principle effect, like the residual 60Hz in the tweed Bassman affecting the tonality? I guess that can't be ruled out. I was thinking of noise as just noise. I should accept that things are seldom so simple.

[Reeltarded]

Distortion.. how does your amp growl.

Listen to Nirvana All Apologies pre-roll. You hear tape, but you also hear the machine noise of several open tracks. When it plays on the radio I shiver. DSOTM in the most dynamic spaces has a different machine noise. It is not over-biased and it is a different tape formula. You can hear the mic pres and open mics.

Soundgarden. Blow Up the Outside half the recording is the machine idle noise. The drum sound is expected. You can hear it in the rests.You can hear the closest gobo and that the ceiling is dead and about 14'. (no wobble) It sounds like it looks. The room tone can make you gasp for air.

Bepone makes a specific point about MF. He is using it to fix a certain amount of reality dither. You want to defocus, but perfectly, and never too much. A little distortion in the right range is a primer for these adjectives; smooth, grunt, thump, growl, chime, gritty.. and others, plus the anti-species of the same. He frequently notes swapping a power string or a grid stop resistor out and the sound having a much more lively note and feel.

This is something he knows. It isn't a guess.

[martin manning]

Distortion.. how does your amp growl.
Listen to Nirvana... Soundgarden...

Noise is measurable. So is harmonic distortion, which people might describe using various adjectives describing their subjective impression of the sound quality.
The nature and origin of resistor noise is well understood, and measurable. Show me where anyone has measured harmonic distortion produced by resistors that might be audible.

[Reeltarded]

No! You show me!

You knew it would come to this. Embrace it.

[martin manning]

We've seen data that shows certain capacitor dielectrics produce distortion products. Resistors? Nothing yet.

[WhopperPlate]

…or there isn't anything to be heard other than the noise itself.

Better answer than: “I can’t hear, feel, or measure a difference, therefore there is no difference, and everyone who perceives otherwise deserves an eye roll ”

[Reeltarded]

That is not what he said.

[martin manning]

Right. What I said was better.

[R.G.]

Better answer than: “I can’t hear, feel, or measure a difference, therefore there is no difference, and everyone who perceives otherwise deserves an eye roll ”

Who exactly said that?

[TUBEDUDE]

Distortion.. how does your amp growl.

Listen to Nirvana All Apologies pre-roll. You hear tape, but you also hear the machine noise of several open tracks. When it plays on the radio I shiver. DSOTM in the most dynamic spaces has a different machine noise. It is not over-biased and it is a different tape formula. You can hear the mic pres and open mics.

Soundgarden. Blow Up the Outside half the recording is the machine idle noise. The drum sound is expected. You can hear it in the rests.You can hear the closest gobo and that the ceiling is dead and about 14'. (no wobble) It sounds like it looks. The room tone can make you gasp for air.

Bepone makes a specific point about MF. He is using it to fix a certain amount of reality dither. You want to defocus, but perfectly, and never too much. A little distortion in the right range is a primer for these adjectives; smooth, grunt, thump, growl, chime, gritty.. and others, plus the anti-species of the same. He frequently notes swapping a power string or a grid stop resistor out and the sound having a much more lively note and feel.

This is something he knows. It isn't a guess.

Miles, you never dissapoint! "Reality Dither" That's my new favorite descriptor. And lately reality needs dithering, or more bias to calm it down a scosch.

[martin manning]

And lately reality needs dithering, or more bias to calm it down a skosh.*

I think more negative feedback.

*from Japanese sukoshi [skoh shee] meaning "a tiny bit"

[R.G.]

You know, I really thought this would taper off after the posting from the fellow who hears tonal differences from different AC line cords.

@ Whopperplate:
Do you accept that people can and have deceived themselves?

Try to keep it down to yes or no.

[martin manning]

A couple of folks here, including Charlie, have already admitted to twiddling a knob and perceiving that it was having some effect, and then discovering later that it was doing nothing. I will confess to being uncertain about a control having any effect when troubleshooting.