What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

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If the component value is the same, is there any effect on the sound when using:

Resistors made of different materials?
45
23%
Old vs. new resistors of the same brand and materials?
9
5%
Different brands of resistors made of the same materials?
12
6%
Capacitors with different dielectric types?
46
23%
Different brands of capacitors with the same dielectric type?
14
7%
Capacitors with the same dielectric type but different construction?
22
11%
Check this box if you participated in the survey
49
25%
 
Total votes: 197

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bepone
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by bepone »

R.G. wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 3:23 pm Again, I have no question that you do, in fact, perceive huge differences. My question is > why < do you perceive this difference in spite of the great amount of technical work that's been expended to make it not be there in the resistors themselves?

Capacitors are another issue. Caps are easy to mislead yourself with. Capacitors are getting better in the last two decades, with affordable 10% and even 5% film caps on the market. But it's very, very easy to listen to two "100nF" caps where a polyester cap is 10% high and a polypro is 10% low and conclude that the film dielectric makes for different tone. They both say 100nF right there on the cap, after all. Have you tried your listening test with different dielectrics but with matched capacitance values and someone else swapping capacitors so you can't see which you're listening to?
For resistors, if i think about the question, maybe inductance, or non inductance plays big role, sometimes when i dont like some sound, i bypass this stage and listen with/without stage included. If i dont like sound of some stage, i start to change resistors. Sometimes from MF to CF, sometimes from CF to MF!
So can be, this part good in this application.

About the caps....many times i recap whole preamp (made on pcb with tubes on pcb, so no external wiring..so swap is easy and results are clear), with 10 different brands or composition.. you can find big differences in this way, excluding wiring or rewiring efects (lead dress).

Then what im searching- before i was searching- top sound, tried very expensive compoents.. now im trying to make at least excellent sound with parts what i have stored (tons of them) so i'm trying to go towards white iskra MKT blocks and MKP from 80ties.. using everywhere in pedals and developing various amps..but for the moment i like more Orange drops polyester and polypropilenes for clean sounds..
mike-p
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by mike-p »

Surely you only really need one listener to consistently identify component changes blind to disprove the doubters?
WhopperPlate
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by WhopperPlate »

mike-p wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:15 pm Surely you only really need one listener to consistently identify component changes blind to disprove the doubters?
Again , I volunteer myself for science
Charlie
maxkracht
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by maxkracht »

WhopperPlate wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:28 pm Again , I volunteer myself for science
Careful, RG knows some people with serious equipment. :shock:
WhopperPlate
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by WhopperPlate »

maxkracht wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:15 pm
WhopperPlate wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:28 pm Again , I volunteer myself for science
Careful, RG knows some people with serious equipment. :shock:
As long as we aren’t talking anal probes and electroshock therapy I think I will be alright
Charlie
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martin manning
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by martin manning »

It's not going to happen unless someone with money has a dog in the fight, like say Fender believes boutique amp builders are hurting their bottom line, or perhaps some government agency feels that enough consumers are being harmed by false claims that it needs to get involved.
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Reeltarded
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by Reeltarded »

This would actually cost a fortune. Not a small one.
Signatures have a 255 character limit that I could abuse, but I am not Cecil B. DeMille.
WhopperPlate
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by WhopperPlate »

Reeltarded wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:16 am This would actually cost a fortune. Not a small one.
Soooo….why the fudge are we crying about science if no one is actually willing to workaround or endeavor to fulfill the mission ? …and essentially just so we can prove to those who can’t hear , or unwilling to try …

I reiterate , anyone can and wants to put my ears to the test in a trustworthy ABX study of component differences, well I am all ears

in the meantime at least I know I have ears that work…back to amp building I suppose …
Charlie
WhopperPlate
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by WhopperPlate »

martin manning wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:05 am or perhaps some government agency feels that enough consumers are being harmed by false claims that it needs to get involved.
governments defining what constitutes false claims and misinformation…what could go wrong ?

….next thing you know all the ampgarage admins are legally required to ban all tone claims and report them to homeland security.
Charlie
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Reeltarded
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by Reeltarded »

WhopperPlate wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 6:22 pm
Reeltarded wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:16 am This would actually cost a fortune. Not a small one.
Soooo….why the fudge are we crying about science if no one is actually willing to workaround or endeavor to fulfill the mission ? …and essentially just so we can prove to those who can’t hear , or unwilling to try …

I reiterate , anyone can and wants to put my ears to the test in a trustworthy ABX study of component differences, well I am all ears

in the meantime at least I know I have ears that work…back to amp building I suppose …
Having a single volunteer that already claims to hear differences isn't close to scientific.

Selection process, several groups of participants.. blind studies.. a panel of oversight, 25 researchers. You can't even start until you have a long search into what came before.. what happens when theh umidity changes from day to day? What if that has more effect based on 30 people sitting 5m in front of one amp plugged into a $100,000 power supply? Expensive.

Venue.. expensive.

Like.. expensive af.
Signatures have a 255 character limit that I could abuse, but I am not Cecil B. DeMille.
WhopperPlate
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by WhopperPlate »

Reeltarded wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:21 pm
WhopperPlate wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 6:22 pm
Reeltarded wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:16 am This would actually cost a fortune. Not a small one.
Soooo….why the fudge are we crying about science if no one is actually willing to workaround or endeavor to fulfill the mission ? …and essentially just so we can prove to those who can’t hear , or unwilling to try …

I reiterate , anyone can and wants to put my ears to the test in a trustworthy ABX study of component differences, well I am all ears

in the meantime at least I know I have ears that work…back to amp building I suppose …
Having a single volunteer that already claims to hear differences isn't close to scientific.

Selection process, several groups of participants.. blind studies.. a panel of oversight, 25 researchers. You can't even start until you have a long search into what came before.. what happens when theh umidity changes from day to day? What if that has more effect based on 30 people sitting 5m in front of one amp plugged into a $100,000 power supply? Expensive.

Venue.. expensive.

Like.. expensive af.
Looks like I will hopelessly and perpetually not be given the benefit of the doubt of naysayers and doubters , fun stuff
Charlie
mike-p
Posts: 42
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by mike-p »

You need all that for detail but as I said, the 'do these component changes affect sound' you just need one person able to hear it blind. Then you can debate all you like whether it matters but not whether it exists.
maxkracht
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by maxkracht »

I don't think a properly rigorous experiment would ever take place, but it wouldn't be too hard to do more rigorous experiments than what I have seen on the internet. Poor methodology seems standard. I remember watching a video comparing the sound of different bias settings where there was no effort to match the volume between settings. Most people default to liking the louder thing, so you don't learn much about the change in timbre without correcting for quirks of human psychology. Comparisons between cap types rarely show any data about the caps used aside from what is written on them.

I would be happy with a decent sample size of well matched components under fairly controlled settings. I know that wouldn't sway the true believers, but It might be educational for the rest of us.
WhopperPlate
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by WhopperPlate »

maxkracht wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:34 pm I know that wouldn't sway the true believers, but It might be educational for the rest of us.
True believers are harder to sway than true perceivers :mrgreen:
Charlie
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Reeltarded
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Re: What do you believe regarding the sound of passive components?

Post by Reeltarded »

Here is your problem... I use specific things because they act differently.

I'm done here.
Signatures have a 255 character limit that I could abuse, but I am not Cecil B. DeMille.
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