Are Black Sable tubes snakeoil? does it make a difference?

[ToneMerc]

ToneMerc, thanks for sharing your info. Interesting @ the followup heat to 275ºF. Wonder if the vacuum tube freezers complete their process this way. Now you have me wondering whether this is the process for Markley's Blue Steel, or if they LN quench at the wire die as the metal is drawn thru.

It's gettin' chilly in here, gotta put on a sweater.

Leo my first question would be, what's the cryo process in general. Since there is no tangilble external evidence ( if done correctly anyway) of the process, there is vast room for exploitation at both ends.

TM

[Reeltarded]

When light goes 5 miles per hour I will be super luminal.

-ping-

File's done!!

[Leo_Gnardo]

Leo my first question would be, what's the cryo process in general. Since there is no tangilble external evidence ( if done correctly anyway) of the process, there is vast room for exploitation at both ends.

TM

You're sure right about that TM! At least one tube "freezer" claims to slowly draw down the temp much as you describe, and leave down in the deep freeze at LN temp for a day more or less, then ramp back up to room temp. Until you described it today, I've not heard of the slow bake after the deep freeze. Of course, a vacuum tube once in use will bake itself but not evenly as you did with your cryo treatments.

And guitar strings? I forget where but I read an account from one home experimenter who just puts his string sets in the freezer and claims that's enough to help the tone. Also I noticed that in contrast to DM's Blue Steels, D'Addario started to offer "heat treated" strings. Fire or ice, what's your choice? I know what the Blue Steels are like. One of these days I'll have to rattle up som D'Add Heat Treated & find out what that's about. Warm tone, I hope.

If you have some time to kill, you could read the several cryo-tube discussions that have taken place on Audio Asylum. And the most recent one on MEF which in recent days has dissolved into pure silliness. If I may summarize, some people think it's the bee's knees and others, it's hogwash. Final results still not in.

[hitchcaster]

ToneMerc, thanks for sharing your info. Interesting @ the followup heat to 275ºF. Wonder if the vacuum tube freezers complete their process this way. Now you have me wondering whether this is the process for Markley's Blue Steel, or if they LN quench at the wire die as the metal is drawn thru.

It's gettin' chilly in here, gotta put on a sweater.

Leo my first question would be, what's the cryo process in general. Since there is no tangilble external evidence ( if done correctly anyway) of the process, there is vast room for exploitation at both ends.

TM

yes, you can't "see" anything... but if you sent off say a guitar cable to be cryo'd, when you get it back you'd "know" because it sounds horrible when you first try it... you have to break it in and then it sounds better then a untreated cable. also, some things break... capacitors go bad, some brands of resistors.. i bought some cryo'd tubes from a dealer (cryoset) and after they got hot the glass started to crack and eventually de-gas.... so its not all good for sure! the black sable tubes definitely seem overpriced, but for someone who's got deep pockets and doesn't want to waste time.

[Firestorm]

Occasionally, I used to buy burned-in/cryo tubes (not Black Sable) because I wanted the burn in; could care less about the cryo. The thing always wondered about the whole cryo thing with tubes is how long does it actually take to make a change (if there is one)? The vacuum won't transmit any heat so all the cooling is through the tube pins and the tiny little wires attached to them.

[VacuumVoodoo]

The vacuum won't transmit any heat so all the cooling is through the tube pins and the tiny little wires attached to them.

Heat is mostly IR radiation, travels very well through space where the vacuum is orders of magnitude harder than in our tubes.

[Reeltarded]

Black body problem.

[Cantplay]

For steel guitar strings there isn't enough compression from the cooling of a regular freezer to overcome Young's modulus and cause plastic deformation of grain.

For nylon strings this works.

Ask anyone who wears pantyhose. They last longer if put in the freezer!

John

[Leo_Gnardo]

For steel guitar strings there isn't enough compression from the cooling of a regular freezer to overcome Young's modulus and cause plastic deformation of grain.

I think you're right about that. Fridge-frozen strings work better for those who do that because they think they do. Ice cold hoodoo. Maybe if they take a couple ice cubes out for an adult beverage whilst they restring - of course the guitar sounds better. And if it needed new strings anyway - well, so much the better.

For nylon strings this works. Ask anyone who wears pantyhose. They last longer if put in the freezer!

Okay, I'll take your word on this one.

[Structo]

Yes I heard about the He shortage. Typical dummkopf US gum'mint decision to do away with a national helium reserve. In Texas of course, a magnet for poor decisions lately. (Tex gubner wanted to do away with the Department of, uh, uh, uh, woops I forgot. DOH! maybe his skull is full of helium.) Along with hydrocarbons, a good deal of helium comes out of oil & gas wells. I guess those dinosaurs were having a festive time with party balloons and talking to each other in squeeky voices.

We had a birthday party for my grand daughter's 16th birthday.

Her mom went to the party store and they said there was a He shortage.

They wouldn't fill any latex balloons, only Mylar.

I don't know much about Helium but I thought I read somewhere that since the new drilling and fracking in the midwest, that it is present in great quantities as a by product from oil drilling.

[VacuumVoodoo]

And it all began so innocently with frozen yoghurt....

[Leo_Gnardo]

I don't know much about Helium but I thought I read somewhere that since the new drilling and fracking in the midwest, that it is present in great quantities as a by product from oil drilling.

I'm sure you're right, but the profit margin is so low on gas now they don't bother recovering the helium (schtoopid!) because they're scrambling to move the cookin' gas.

Mylar balloons only because they're better at holding the helium. It leaks thru rubber in a couple hours, in a day or 2 they're deflated.

Helium is an extraordinarily "slippery" gas. When I worked on ultra-high vacuum equipment we used to use it to sniff out leaks in the hi vac gear. Take a little bottle of compressed helium and spritz a little near any suspect connections. It would leak into the vacuum space more readily than air, and cause an obvious increase in the pressure inside the gear - which was often at @ 1 billionth of atmospheric pressure AKA 1 microtorr.

[vibratoking]

Does we really need a national helium reserve? I, for one, was happy when it was planned to be phased out. Over a billlion dollars in debt. It was started to supply dirigibles, as I understand it. Don't think we need that, although I acknowledge all the other good uses. It should be a free market IMO, but the govt is still mucking with the price so it ain't. Can't have a free market with price controls. So, good idea with a bad implementation. What a surprise.

[romberg]

Helium is the second most abundant element in the universe. But it escapes the earth's atmosphere. And "manufacturing" it is expensive (energy wise). So, once the helium that is left on earth is liberated as a gas, it is gone.

Helium's use for balloons is also minor. It is mostly used for industrial applications such as welding and semiconductor manufacturing.

Mike

[Firestorm]

Black body problem.

As, yes. Damn Planck. And thermodynamics. I'm still suspicious of the claims for cryo tubes.