Are Black Sable tubes snakeoil? does it make a difference?

[Zippy]

CantPlay, ToneMerc, Zippy, I believe you've done what you said you have - but a little more info if you would indulge me. Did you take metal from room temp to LN temp or from heated-up a couple hundred degrees or more to LN cold? Quenching from heat - yes I expect that would make a difference. Cooling from room temp to ultra cold - then returning to room temp, I'm having a hard time buying the idea it would make much of a net difference.

For systems that do NOT experience a phase transformation, Google "cryogenic stress relief".

BTW and FWIW, I have not seen any compelling scientific evidence that leads me to believe that cryogenic relief of residual stresses would have any sonic effect on vacuum tubes.

[ToneMerc]

CantPlay, ToneMerc, Zippy, I believe you've done what you said you have - but a little more info if you would indulge me. Did you take metal from room temp to LN temp or from heated-up a couple hundred degrees or more to LN cold? Quenching from heat - yes I expect that would make a difference. Cooling from room temp to ultra cold - then returning to room temp, I'm having a hard time buying the ideal

Leo now I can't speak for any other shop but this is how we were setup, we charged $6/lb and had a 20 lb min. to run the machine. This prevented a guy bringing in a single alum softball or a set of kitchen knives to cryo.

There are some BS processes out there, but this was our basic "6 to 6" (6PM to 6AM) 36 hr process in a nutshell minus prep.

Depending upon how densely the machine was loaded, we would slowly take a load from room temperature down to around -305/-310 degrees over a period 5.5 to 6 hrs. Then the load would be kept at -310 degrees for 24 hrs and next is the very important part, in which you never really hear about. Finally, you slowly raise the batch temp from -310 degrees back up around 275+ degrees, again controlled over a period of at least 6 hrs.

I would run from any shop that tells you that they can do it overnight.


TM

[Zippy]

TM,

Did you use the same process for phase transformation of tool steels and stress relief of other materials?

Or did your company only deal the cryo treatment of hardened steels (tool bits, gun barrels, etc.)?

[vibratoking]

We are talking degrees F, right?

[Reeltarded]

Fing cold yes.

[Zippy]

Good question.

Equilibrium temperature for LN is 77K (-196 C).

[Reeltarded]

Lord Kelvin trouble maker

[Leo_Gnardo]

We are talking degrees F, right?

Gotta be because 32ºF = 0ºC = 273ºK.

0ºK = -273ºC

If the temp was -310ºC, it would be below absolute zero, don't go there.

Crack open a cool one and contemplate this.

Temperatures within a couple billionths of a degree (K or C) above absolute zero have been obtained. Helium starts acting very weird. It's yet another "state of matter", a Bose-Einstein condensate. Under these conditions researchers have managed to slow photons down to a crawl. Very interesting stuff but AFAIK no everyday applications. It's crazy crazy cold way down there (for BST fans.)

Funny t'ing about helium, it's liquid, then BE condensate, but so far I've never heard of it going solid as the temp nears absolute zero. Strange stuff. Just about everything else is frozen solid, as you might imagine.

Centigrade/Celsius and Kelvin degrees are the same "size" just have different starting points.

[Reeltarded]

Have you seen the high-speed video of light passing through the coke bottle?

I hope not. I like to show this to people for the first time.

The action starts just after 2:50.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_9vd4HWlVA

It is a packet. Bunched particles. It hits the cap inside and explodes into waves that interfere with each other across the table. If you watch it 100 times you start noticing lots of other interesting things.

I recently listened to an interview with a smart lady who brought clouds of photons down to walking speed. Another interesting interview talked about sub zero K. There is a state below 0 and it doeth maketh shit very weird.

[Zippy]

Yepper. A couple weeks ago, I was talking with a guy that works with cold neutrons. They act like a bunch of slow-bouncing ping pong balls. It still hurts my head to think about it.

[Zippy]

Funny t'ing about helium, it's liquid, then BE condensate, but so far I've never heard of it going solid as the temp nears absolute zero.

What about under high pressure? I have a book of matter at high pressures. I'll have to check on that.

FWIW, there's a shortage of He these days. The cold guys are recycling the boiled off He gas and pressurizing it back to liquid for their chillers. Save those He balloons!

[eniam rognab]

that guy ted is pretty cool huh?

[Reeltarded]

Dark energy is an unfairly silly hypothisis. Whatelse we got?

Instead of expansion to begin with maybe it was a reduction from a dense enough plasma sort of stuff and most everything since has been about constantly reducing local energy into matter. I would imagine even the lowest density of space could be considered like wadding in a model rocket. Billions of years of shit blowing up like you couldn't begin to imagine plus cow farts.

Maybe the egde of the Universe has 10 times the gravity and everything is fighting to get there.

Who knows? It all adds up. Good tubes are hard to find.

[ToneMerc]

TM,



Or did your company only deal the cryo treatment of hardened steels (tool bits, gun barrels, etc.)?

Zippy here's the honest truth;we treated nearly anything that customers wanted treated.When this process became commercially feasible in the mid 90's, the fad treating and claims came with it. There was a period we sent through school band instruments and even some working musicians instruments, golf clubs and alum softball bats. We used to treat chain saws for some tree cutting services and they raved how treated chains would hold an edge. If it moved inside an engine we treated and not only barrels, in some cases stripped weapons systems.


TM

[Leo_Gnardo]

FWIW, there's a shortage of He these days. The cold guys are recycling the boiled off He gas and pressurizing it back to liquid for their chillers. Save those He balloons!

Yes I heard about the He shortage. Typical dummkopf US gum'mint decision to do away with a national helium reserve. In Texas of course, a magnet for poor decisions lately. (Tex gubner wanted to do away with the Department of, uh, uh, uh, woops I forgot. DOH! maybe his skull is full of helium.) Along with hydrocarbons, a good deal of helium comes out of oil & gas wells. I guess those dinosaurs were having a festive time with party balloons and talking to each other in squeeky voices.

Miles, yeh I read about the Harvard researcher you're talking about, Dr Lene Vestergaard Hau, @ 1999 when she slowed light down to 38 mph. Not miles per second. Per hour, I could pass it in my Jeep without even thinkin'. Now even slower. I like smart women! Now what can we do with it... Now I'm gonna spend all night reading the Wiki's on slow light and all the other odd newly discovered states of matter.

Below absolute zero. I told you, don't go there. I'm worried about an Ice Nine event. Good music publishing company, yes. Weird physics, oh well I suppose somebody's gonna do it so when everything freezes solid, just remember, I told you so. So it goes...

ToneMerc, thanks for sharing your info. Interesting @ the followup heat to 275ºF. Wonder if the vacuum tube freezers complete their process this way. Now you have me wondering whether this is the process for Markley's Blue Steel, or if they LN quench at the wire die as the metal is drawn thru.

It's gettin' chilly in here, gotta put on a sweater.