Cameron Marshall Mods

[teemuk]

If Matchless or Dr. Z had to worry about their circuits leaking out to stay in business, they would really be in trouble.

Especially because a closer scrutiny quickly reveals that "their circuits" aren't really their circuits to begin with.

[Phil_S]

I respectfully disagree on keeping opinions to ourselves on various matters. There is nothing wrong with civil discourse. Let's just be careful not to let it become something obnoxious. I agree that few minds will be changed by some discussions, but it is often good to know what others think.

In this particular case, goop and paint generated some pretty strong negative reactions. I don't think it is a bad thing to see that. There seems to be an overwhelming sentiment that goop and paint on a classic amp are not acceptable without the owner's prior consent. While I'm sympathetic to the desire to protect a "trade secret" I don't see goop and paint as the solution.

It is unfortunate that is it so difficult to protect intellectual property and I wish there was an effective way to do it. To the best of my knowledge, there is no good option unless you are a big corporation. For big industry there is the patent and there is the trade secret (e.g., Coca Cola). It takes deep pockets to protect patent rights. For a small operation doing circuit mods, I don't see how someone can afford to defend a patent using a costly lawyer.

Where, exactly does that leave someone who wants to protect his IP? Monitoring the internet for patent violations and chasing them down to pay royalties? There are guys who do that, but, I mean, get a life!

Sometimes, you end up having to let a good idea run wild, even when you don't want to.

I'll offer a thought that may not be so practical, but I don't really know. It seems to me that a PCB mod like the one we saw here, or even a turret board mod, could be done with parts that have been painted or coated off the board, making identification difficult, but not defacing the amp itself. In some cases, it may be possible to set them in black epoxy (using molds), leaving the leads exposed. With a bit of artful effort, such things might be done in a way that looks acceptable and reversible. Sure, it might cost a little more to do it. If that is the price of protecting IP, so be it. If the customer doesn't want to pay that price, then maybe the IP isn't worth what it is being offered for. In small markets like the one we're discussing, economic realities are much closer to being perfectly elastic.

Just my unsolicited 2 cents. Thanks for listening.

[M Fowler]

First there was Coca-Cola in 1886 and then along came Pepsi-Cola in late 1890's scooping up the sales.

[ToneMerc]

I'm feel a psychic reading coming on; clean up on aisle 7, somebody won't be coming down for breakfast!

TM

[Gibsonman63]

I'm feel a psychic reading coming on; clean up on aisle 7, somebody won't be coming down for breakfast!

TM

+1

[John_P_WI]

^^^ Is it possible to promote ones self by tearing down others???

Just a question presented, I certainly don't have a dog in this hunt. Time for everyone to chill and get back to amp building before this turns into BB shit fest.

[Structo]

Cleanup on aisle 7 complete.

Please don't post derogatory comments or inflammatory comments.
Such posts have been deleted.

Jlester, not sure what your motive is but you apparently have an axe to grind.

/ BS

[briane]

it may be possible to set them in black epoxy

well - then buy a hiss-reducer for a wurlitzer from the vintage-vibe!

the main cap is encased in small block of epoxy! 2 caps and a resistor - of course I removed it and just measured it - but its totally doable to protect your components individually and still leave them servicable - if you know what they are or can measure them.

[wyatt]

It is unfortunate that is it so difficult to protect intellectual property and I wish there was an effective way to do it. To the best of my knowledge, there is no good option unless you are a big corporation. For big industry there is the patent and there is the trade secret (e.g., Coca Cola). It takes deep pockets to protect patent rights. For a small operation doing circuit mods, I don't see how someone can afford to defend a patent using a costly lawyer.

While I reserve plenty of room for Hartley and Randall and others to surprise me, it's pretty rare to have any part of a vacuum tube amplifier that will qualify for a new patent, especially in the signal path. Most patents you see in the amp world are for mechanical processes around the amp's operation (or even its manufacturing).

Oddly, one of the few placed for protection is PCB design, because a PCB layout is artwork and protected by copyright. But it doesn't cover someone coming up with a completely new layout for an identical circuit, though it may look up some of the "best practice" design scenarios that can make your product dominant.

Trademark is the one protection a builder has, and that brings us back around to why marketing and branding are o important. You can trademark the name and logo and often the appearance (DiMarzio's twin cream coils, Ric's Horseshoe and Toaster Top pickup appearances, etc.).

[FUCHSAUDIO]

The problem is whether you should bother...I copyright my board art and mark it as such, but it's no guarantee someone can't take pictures or simply start drawing a board up from yours....when I worked at Earth (before most computer PC board programs were in common use) they took Peavey boards and stripped them of parts, made up insertion and part lists, and photographed the artwork to replicate them perfectly. The boards were heavier and higher grade boards since the company was a miltary contractor. They overbuilt except they made mistakes like using unmatched output transistors and made a few fatal shortcuts......

Randall has patented so much prior art it's silly. Things like simul-class and mixing power tube types, different rectifiers, mostly semantics (re-describing prior things differently or with a minor change. The only "real" patent was the channel switching IMHO, which a number of people (Risson, Boogie, Dumble etc) did but Randall patented it. He's bugged a few people (Egnater, Budda, Bad-Cat) over power tube switching and dual rectification, that I know of. He bugged me over diamond plate metal fronts on an amp.

Peavey has had some really innovative patents in solid state stuff. Switch mode amps, solid state emulating tube sound, some cool stuff. As far as tubes go most of the "real" patenting seems to have come from audiophile companies like Audio Research who did some pioneering tube/solid state hybrid stuff that was cool and unique.

The only "small company" I know of that patented something new tube related was Heritages amp division who pulled a patent (via Paul-C's design I think) for a unique output transformer. We shared an attorney who mentioned it, although didn't tell me anything about the details.

Patents and trademarks can run you into money. Most smaller companies would rather take their chances and use the money for something else like IDK, eating....

[capgreed]

My ... what did i just do just so everyone knows , i didn't intend to make the skies rain lead buckets filled with diarrhea ....

here's my humble opinion , i don't think a lawyer or a dentist able to shell out 4000 bucks on an amp while working 70 hours or more in a week would give a rat's ass about taking a hefty part of their scarce time to build the same amp themselves on weekends ( or their proportion in the potential buyer's panel wouldn't be of any significance anyway ) , the other part of the public who'd be in the business for such an amp is broke as shit and wouldn't have been able to acquire it anyway ... Small business cloners , well , wouldn't be able to have a viable business model with it to me , because the traders - lawyers types are smart , so wan't the hyped goodies they buy to have the wow factor in the mahogany living room and resale value in case the nasdaq goes south , no need to say the resale value of an amp coming from a firm called "doghouse tone inc" , cold soldered with a questionable muddy lefty boot used as a glove , doesn't allow even a 15 minutes with a shaftable escort before committing suicide out of a 100th stories window ...tone taste varies with time and no one likes too loose money on investments...

Now can we tone freaks , economic depression , shitty management psychotechniques casualties also have the chance to play with the nice toys too (*), with average soldering skills , patience of dead bodies to buy the parts one after another , and determination to deduce a pcb from foggy pics ?? How about sharing the love afterwards ?

i may also be wrong , but hey , i'm not supposed to bother 99% of the time ...
cat's out of the bag anyway ....


(*) ; please don't hurt my back with the " when you work your ass off you keep your work and have your nice tone" kind of rethoric , wake up, it's not the good old sixties anymore gents , i could write you a 600 pages novel about the shitty ass consequences of being at times almost unwillingly bright and productive in a company where the nail above the wood surface gets the hammer real bad ... working like a turd doesn't quite work either ...and keeping the under the radar average joe level going is like hoola hooping with a broken spine , especially tricky and painful to maintain for a long long long period of time ...... shameful quantities of beer and dance with the stars' frontal lobotomy can be of help but it's not a viable solution on the long run .... ...i guess stability is a thing of the past ...sane capitalism too

[Reeltarded]

Just as a heads up, I started peeing in my amps after number 0003.

[capgreed]

Just as a heads up, I started peeing in my amps after number 0003.

Each and every one have their own relic'ing techniques



ahhh this thread definitely need a little lightness and humor ....i concur

[Tubetastic]

Just as a heads up, I started peeing in my amps after number 0003.

Your a weird cat!

[teemuk]

Just as a heads up, I started peeing in my amps after number 0003.

I wonder which ones that practice makes more valuable in the future when reeltarted joins the legion of other larger-than-life amp gurus; serials < 0003 or serials > 0003.

I guess it's all good as long as you don't pee inside your amps while they hold voltage charge.