Ruined

[azatplayer]

Hey. I built a 57' Twin clone over Christmas, my 4th build, got it running straight away, no build issues. Alltho i had dreams of a EF86 channel, with paralleled second channel feeding EL34's. A little off spec..

Well i learned that you pretty well have to build backwards and designing your own amp aint as easy as following someones proven thing.. but all is good.

I went from the 57' to a bassman board, which i liked better, longtail PI making the diff, and dropping the EF86, but still was lacking.

Then came across this place. And discovered the octal rocket guys are building. So...

Long story short, this amp has ruined me for my other amps.
It has such deep clean lows, thundering actually yet pristine shimmering cleans. I built an amp for my brother, which he is paying off... but then he played my gretsch(that he covets) thru it the other night, now he wants me to mod the old amp to this spec!

Anyways thanks for all the great info and wisdom, i have 3 sets of trannies en route from Toneslut, what a great name!, and have a few builds about to go together. Cant wait!

Don

[Zippy]

Very cool, Don. Welcome!

What build did you go with?

Have you tried the KT66s?

Mid control?

Please let us know what is working for you and what else you might want out of the amp. This variation is still young and there may yet be many wonderful things to come.

[iknowjohnny]

This also happened to me. i decided to try and build my ultimate high gain (well, somewhat high gain...think JCM800 master or a bit more) marshall and succeeded in building one that has ruined me for all marshalls. I stopped being interested in other amps altogether. (tho i do get the bug to build a ultimate fender from time to time:)) It wasn't a simple build and enjoy affair tho. I spent the last year tweaking till i nailed it. But now the marshalls all sound just acceptable to lousy for me. I played a JCM800 i always loved recently and it sounded horrible to me now ! i'm no tech really, but it just goes to show that if the person is determined and knows at least enough to build and tweak, nothing can take the place of the builder being the same person who's ears the amp is intended to please ! I cut my own hair for the same reason. I'm no hair stylist to be sure, but no matter how good a stylist you go to none of them knows exactly what you want better than you.

Of course there also one other extremely important thing to mention....not being a tech, having the help of the people on this and several other amp forums is invaluable to say the least ! There are times i know what i want but not sure exactly how to accomplish it, and thats where forums like this are invaluable. And thanks to them i also have far less instances where i need help than when i started. Thanks to all who are so helpful !

[stubbyfex]

Hello and welcome!
Spoiled? Yes, that is exactly how I feel now after building my Express!
The Express sounds so nice I'm spoiled and don't want to play my Marshall clones, or dare I say, my Dumble clone! The Dumble is sweet, but it really uses too many parts and I have to adjust too many knobs to get "the tone". With the Express, I mainly leave all the tones and presence half way up, and the volume is all I adjust. I guess sometimes the room is a little "dull" sounding, so then I might adjust the treble to compensate, but usually the volume is all I adjust.
Since I'm also a bass player, I'm working on a design based on the Express but for bass too. I don't necessarily need the distortion, just the sustain and harmonic content.

[azatplayer]

Thanks for the welcome guys.
There certainly is something immensely satisfying about playing something you have created from parts, i gigged this amp for the first time on wednesday and it was very sweet. I have a Z 1x12 convertible with a gold in it that is just amazing with this amp.
But last night i patched 2, 1x12's together, the other with a blue, and i couldnt stop playing... the blue has an earlier breakup, the gold carrys clean and deep, just a great pairing.
Zippy, i went with the 66 rockster schem rev 1e.
I pretty much followed it thru, and it sounded great right off the bat.
But had a little much drive with the 100uf on V1b, so i put a switch in to increase the cathode on V1b to 2.2k. I used a 3 way switch, first spot was 2.2k, second was 1.5k, third spot was 1.5k with 100uf cap. All very cool. After a week of fiddling, i ended up removing the switch and leaving it with 1.5k and 25uf. Sounds just perfect there.
Also i ran KT's first as i love em', but there was such a huge difference needed in the cathode between them and EL34's that i ended up quickly using a fixed bias. I had a 360 ohm in the cathode and it was fine with EL34's but the KT's were glowing at idle. 430V plate and 32ma/360ohm, giving me about 16watts diss each EL34, i thought was an ok start, but the KT's went up to 56ma, massive difference!
Im using a set of new ruby EL34's, shuguangs big bottles taht i have really liked in other amps. Very 6L6ish in this one. The KT's had more grind and earlier breakup, sound awesome too, but ive left the EL34's in there.
There was certainly a noticeable difference from cathode to fixed bias, fixed seemed to me to lose a little chime/grind?
I started this build with a super reverb PT and a JTM OT,3300K, both Heyboers. The super is pretty well the same as a JTM.
There was some advice to use bigger dropping resistors to keep the preamp voltages around the same as the stock build, and as my PT is 360 a side, i ended up with about 37k in the first drop after the choke.
Shes a bit of a partsa amp, with the original twin modded in the PS, i had a 47uf cap then the choke then a 33uf cap followed by the rest. Well i rewired it to use the 47 and 33 togther for 80uf. But as my standby is setup at the start of the string, the rec was gonna get a blast from 80uf, so i dropped it back to 47uf on the first stage, also the plate feed.
And using a 3 henry choke as thats what was in the modded ps.
Prolly gonna order a 15henry and change the standby around, but as theres a lot of filtering on this thing, i will leave the first stage where it is.
O, bugger got to get to work! C
Cheers and thanks for the welcome!
Don

[Zippy]

Zippy, i went with the 66 rockster schem rev 1e.

But had a little much drive with the 100uf on V1b, so i put a switch in to increase the cathode on V1b to 2.2k. I used a 3 way switch, first spot was 2.2k, second was 1.5k, third spot was 1.5k with 100uf cap. All very cool. After a week of fiddling, i ended up removing the switch and leaving it with 1.5k and 25uf.

Im using a set of new ruby EL34's, shuguangs big bottles taht i have really liked in other amps. Very 6L6ish in this one. The KT's had more grind and earlier breakup, sound awesome too, but ive left the EL34's in there.

There was certainly a noticeable difference from cathode to fixed bias, fixed seemed to me to lose a little chime/grind?

There was some advice to use bigger dropping resistors to keep the preamp voltages around the same as the stock build, and as my PT is 360 a side, i ended up with about 37k in the first drop after the choke.

I've pulled out some of the more interesting (to me, at least) details - I hope you don't mind. Good stuff to share. Many thanks.

It's a real pleasure to have another in the fold that is open to some mindful experimenting. I like your style!

[Phil_S]

Fellas, you speak of these amps like they are the woman of your dreams and now you can't look at anyone else You've got this all wrong. These are amps. You can build yourself a whole harem of them and, unlike flesh and blood women, they don't get jealous or make demands. I am ruined with several.

[rawnster]

Fellas, you speak of these amps like they are the woman of your dreams and now you can't look at anyone else You've got this all wrong. These are amps. You can build yourself a whole harem of them and, unlike flesh and blood women, they don't get jealous or make demands. I am ruined with several.

Are you sure? I think they know when they're being dissed for another amp. My guitars are that way. When I'm playing my gretsch a lot, it's good to me...stays in decent tune and such. If I put it down for a week and play my tele, and then try to play the gretsch again, it gets all persnickety...tone is midrangy, won't stay in tune.

I think they know. It's like the movie, "Gone In 60 Seconds" where Eleanor (a 1967 Shelby GT 500 mustang) gave Nicolas Cage such a hard time, even after he sweet talked her tenderly.

[Structo]

Yeah, not sure about that.

I have a couple angry pilot lights staring at me right now since I have been playing my homebrew Hammond conversion a lot lately.

[azatplayer]

mmmmm harem...

Of course i am about to build another 2..

Rawnster, was your mp3's that got me going in the first place. Such a sweet sound. Cheers mate!

[rawnster]

mmmmm harem...

Of course i am about to build another 2..

Rawnster, was your mp3's that got me going in the first place. Such a sweet sound. Cheers mate!

Sweet! I'm glad you liked them. Once I get done with some final tube tweaks on the amp, I'll try to record some more clips. and perhaps do a small band recording type thing.

[iknowjohnny]

Fellas, you speak of these amps like they are the woman of your dreams and now you can't look at anyone else Shocked You've got this all wrong. These are amps. You can build yourself a whole harem of them and, unlike flesh and blood women, they don't get jealous or make demands. I am ruined with several.

Well, we all have different needs/wants etc. So you can really only speak for yourself. See, personally all i have wanted for many years now is a certain type of sound and i don't care about anything else because it fills all my needs. It is a fairly high gain marshall type of sound thats super dynamic allowing pretty clean to pretty distorted with the twist of your guitar's volume. Add to that a super spongy quality with enough high end without sounding the slightest bit harsh or tinny. Some marshalls came close but i knew the only way i would be able to get it is to do it myself. So i took a basic design and tweaked it without regard to rules and after darn near a year of countless hours i have exactly what i wanted. It leaves nothing to be desired and i haven't the slightest need or desire for other amps. I could see myself building a fenderish affair maybe, but i doubt i will and if i did it would only be out of the love i developed for building, not because i want or need another amp. This one truly ruined me for anything. I work in a situation where i have access to a lot of amps including some high end stuff, and theres nothing there i feel comes close because i built this thing to suit MY ear ! The last one i tried just a few days ago was one of those suhr badgers. I honestly don't exagerate when i say it wasn't a pimple on the a$$ of my amp. Not even close. yeah, i don't need or want anything else....this is the sound i have heard in my head and wanted for about the last 2 decades which is how long ago i came to realize exactly what it was i was looking for.

[Structo]

I'm glad you were able to realize your dream tone.

Many of us end up chasing our tails for years.

Sounds like you did too but were able to zero in on it and achieve it.

[azatplayer]

I gigged my Swart today as i needed lower output, 20 watts, and the grabability of the little 1x12 is very cool.
However this rocket octal build has a tone that im really getting a lot out of.
Has a crispness and clean the AST doesnt get, and great dynamics that the AST also deosnt have.
So... im thinking of building a grab and go 1x12 with a blue in it and a lower powered version of this build. Based around 6V6's. To get near 20 watts or so.
So, smaller trannies, compact chassis placement, in a 1x12 about 18inch by 15 inch by 10inch , 30 pound combo. Now this would be perfect for the small club mic'd thru the house, maybe some reverb.
I did see someone did a rocket with reverb, that would be cool.
I have tried 6V6's in this build, but it became pretty crunchy, no where near as clean as with bigger glass. But my feeling is if i get the voltages down lower, and have the right OT for it, it could be cool.

I think im gonna HAVE to do this build next. Then i can sell my swart...