amps and solutions

[Tubetwang]

8 years ago, i got tired of waiting 2 weeks and spilling 75$ to the luthier for a guitar set-up...

I got a computer and started educating meself via amp-guitar-forums...books, DVD's etc.

I built quite a few amps and kept the Liverpool Express pair. The other 14 were sold at cost...or less...

Now i can do pretty well anything that i want on a guitar and/or amps. Shure i get stuck at times but it's all in the game.

I am a happy camper.

Twang

[km6xz]

[quote="drz400
It is hard to find a good tech since the pay is for shit, same as a guitar guitar tech.
Musicians expect to pay $45 to get their amp fixed and $150 for a fret job.



I used to do amp tech work, worked alongside with a guy who had a degree who used to spend hours looking for a leaky cap, not realizing a ground wire broke, he was always looking for something deep when it was in his face There is no replacement for experience.[/quote]

I am not suggesting an education is the entire answer, it is a component of the combination of drive, critical thinking, passion for learning, and yes experience. Experience without the other elements creates a person who can solve a percentage of cases that have occurred before, maybe 80% and the remaining 20% are told their gear is unrepairable. That is not good because a skilled tech can save those remaining 20% and actually charge less. Amps are not likely to require as much knowledge as more complex equipment such as recording gear and high end effect units, but still a high percentage of amp owners are told it is hopeless when it is not at all.
There are a lot of things that can increase the odds of whittling down the 20% of "no one could fix it" repairs. I've never seen an amp that was not serviceable unless severely mechanically damaged making it too costly.

Pay is directly related the value as perceived by the client of the problem, not the repair problem but the value he places on the problem going away. Someone who does not value his problem, is going to be uneasy about spending anything. Hobbyists generally pursue their hobby without thoughts of value, it is a hobby after all. The vast majority of musicians are hobbyist even if they regularly play gigs, their income from it is swallowed by gear wear and tear or replacements, practice rooms, paying roadies, sound mixers etc. There is never much income related to clientele who are hobbyist's. A mechanic works on hot rods will never make as much as a mechanic working, with same skill and experience, on heavy equipment or marine systems, which are not hobbies and each defect has a high cost for every hour the equipment is on-line to the business seeking the work. The one way I've seen techs get a bit of a boost in income is to create a cult of personality over some "magic" he puts into his clients project. It requires a gullible client as a true believer but there are enough. But it is not anything more than smoke and mirrors for the vast majority of special tweaking. High-end Hi-Fi is notoriously filled with both gullible clients and audio gurus willing to prey on them.
So the problem is two fold: techs who are not professional in every sense of the word and clients who do not value their problem.

I love to repair things, electronics, Italian sports cars, anything just as others others like to submerge themselves into chess or rock climbing. I had several long term tech companies, including a very popular top tier recording studio back when the budgets were large and labels where signing many new artists. Later, after a 25 year run with the studio and recording engineer/producer, I started a pro audio service center with 15 full time techs plus support staff. That was a lot of work because i handled the business but also trained techs and diagnosed anything that was out of the routine and produced 35% of the repair gross for the entire shop. Mostly my repairs where digital tape decks and high end effects units. I still like surface mount more than point to point for refurb, it is just easier with the right equipment, more time can be spent troubleshooting and less mechanical dis-assembly. This was a side business that grew out of the recording studio's tech department.
I still do some design work for hi-end hi-fi manufacturers, and work with young artists occasionally, but now can only be considered a hobby which is how I would like it to be.
I still like to design amps, solid state or tube, the most famous units for manufacturers have been outrageous tube amps, like a liquid cooled 200 W pure Class A monster that the manufacture sells for the price of a Lexus or recording or RF equipment. Fun stuff.

[CaseyJones]

I got a computer and started educating meself via amp-guitar-forums...books, DVD's etc.

IMHO the internet is a frequently a poor source. There's a ton of information out there, unfortunately myth and urban legend gets repeated ad infinitum. The available information is reliable up to a point. There is plenty of information out there that's just plain wrong. If enough people say that's the way to do it then that becomes the accepted procedure. The real expertise is knowing when to deviate from the norm.

I am not suggesting an education is the entire answer, it is a component of the combination of drive, critical thinking, passion for learning, and yes experience. Experience without the other elements creates a person who can solve a percentage of cases that have occurred before, maybe 80% and the remaining 20% are told their gear is unrepairable. That is not good because a skilled tech can save those remaining 20% and actually charge less. Amps are not likely to require as much knowledge as more complex equipment such as recording gear and high end effect units, but still a high percentage of amp owners are told it is hopeless when it is not at all.
There are a lot of things that can increase the odds of whittling down the 20% of "no one could fix it" repairs. I've never seen an amp that was not serviceable unless severely mechanically damaged making it too costly.

If education were the answer... where are you going to get an education in obsolete technology? The basic rules don't change, Ohm's Law is Ohm's Law but most current educational settings focus on microcircuitry.

One of our accounts is doin' service for a rental outfit that serves touring musicians. If the artist's rider states that there should be a Fender Twin onstage these guys rent them a Twin. If the artist wants a B3 then there's a B3. They have their own technicians, they get first crack at repair work. By the time we get something their guys have "tried everything". I've said this before, if you're "tried everything" then the device should function. Leave no stone unturned and there's no possibility that you've missed something.

The actual situation is that their guys have an embarrassingly limited repetoire, they may have tried "everything" in their bag of tricks but it's a tiny little bag of tricks. They frequently miss the obvious and spend a lot of time goin' off in the wrong direction.

[km6xz]

If education were the answer... where are you going to get an education in obsolete technology? The basic rules don't change, Ohm's Law is Ohm's Law but most current educational settings focus on microcircuitry.

It should make no difference what the current technology is, the math, physics, wave mechanics, chemistry etc will give enough fundimentals to be able to absorb technical material that is still around at every level. Without a good grounding the physics and math, determining how appropriate new material is to your focus. For example your mentioning the dangers of the internet, I certainly agree there, is the requirement to be able to analyize claims or theories and filter out the garbage. There is a lot of garbage and marketing hype that is pure bunk but it is "popular" information, gets lots of hits and links so it must be good.
Details of specific techniques used in an industry are learned by doing, but the fundimentals are not. Technique is fashion or fad, it varies over eras but the fundimentals are firmer ground on which to build chops.
Even GC salesmen can recite popular technique, it means nothing really. There is so little difference in the physics of technologies over the last 70 years but those who had little grounding find it hard to adopt to the changes. There are few industries that require a thorough understanding of technologies covering 70-80 years. Engineers do not, but tchnicians have to be comfortable with all possible system technologies to have any value to their clients. Unless of course the tech only works on 1 product type from 1 era that does not need to connect to equipment from other eras.
My main grip is the lack of professionalism and pride in keeping up. The books in the library on fundimental grow dusty from lack of interest.

My thoughts on this extends to "recording engineers" more than amp techs. All the recording schools in the world, churning out fresh certificates given to people who had so little drive that they thought a school could make them into a recording engineer. These students ask me all the time how to break into the field. They can't, it is too late. A likely candidate for a real career has too much passion and energy to be taught technique, by the time most successful engineers were 18 they had already devoured every book, every tecnical paper from AES etc. But at an given time there was only room for a few dozen top engineers, now even fewer, it was very competitive. during the 70s-early 90s, the golden age of independent studios, only 8 or 9 studios did 80% of the hit records each year. So it was a rare craft to excel when there were so few positions available.
Top techs are not quite as rare,but not by much: there are hundreds of thousands of people calling themselves techs in audio. Of those only a few handfuls are what would be clearly classified as competent. Personally, I've never seen a truly competent tech who did not have advanced study of math and physics plus was younger than 40 years old and started after age 16-17.

[jjman]

I think much of this is from the general change from "fix it" to "replace it" that we've seen over the last 50 years. As time goes on there are fewer and fewer "maintenance" tasks needed to keep things moving. Appliances, cars, and electronics all used to require regular attention. Remember "oil here" on appliances and "annual tune-ups" on cars and tube testers in department stores? Back then we all grew up with Dad performing these tasks and we watched and learned. Those who didn’t go to college often when into a trades. I’m glad I was young when this was normal since it exposed me to the value of fixing/maintaining it yourself. Now that bearings are sealed and cars have much fewer parts that “wear out” with normal use, and electronics are dirt cheap, today’s youth has no real-world exposure to fixing and maintaining these things. The internet can help teach and a classroom textbook helps but nothing will ever replace the diagnostic ability and confidence that started from “helping” Dad fix it.

[CaseyJones]

It should make no difference what the current technology is, the math, physics, wave mechanics, chemistry etc will give enough fundimentals to be able to absorb technical material that is still around at every level. Without a good grounding the physics and math, determining how appropriate new material is to your focus. For example your mentioning the dangers of the internet, I certainly agree there, is the requirement to be able to analyize claims or theories and filter out the garbage.

In practice it does indeed make a difference... the contrast between obsolete electronics and modern electronics.

There's a dramatic difference in materials and construction methods when one compares modern electronics to vintage electronics. Modern electronics will become further removed from classic tube circuits as more and more communications go digital. After all, a transmitter is nuthin' but a big ol' amp. Except today the transmitter speaks buzzy hissy robot talk (digital).

All the theory in the world doesn't prepare you for your first visit inside a zorched tube amp. Frequent visits provide the experience necessary to become familiar with what fails and how. There's no substitute for experience.

I think much of this is from the general change from "fix it" to "replace it" that we've seen over the last 50 years. As time goes on there are fewer and fewer "maintenance" tasks needed to keep things moving. Appliances, cars, and electronics all used to require regular attention. Remember "oil here" on appliances and "annual tune-ups" on cars and tube testers in department stores? Back then we all grew up with Dad performing these tasks and we watched and learned. Those who didn’t go to college often when into a trades.

That's funny 'cuz the guys who "went into a trade" have to go to college now.

[Andy Le Blanc]

I started before the internet....... used book stores.....library discards
flea markets.....yard sales.... pawn shops....... curb side trash......the back closets
of chem and physics labs at cleaning time..... beg bum borrow and steal...
good information presented in a digestable manner is hard to find...
its the mind set of the consumer market that gets me.... its not that its a throw-away culture
its if something is inconvienent, the length to which people will go to not have to
invest effort of any sort to reach any sort of resolution..... its a dependence
they pay twenty some odd dollars plus the strings for a string change so they dont even have to
make the effort to learn how..... ya cant fix stupid.... as the saying goes....

technology has created a gulf between man and his tools .....when the effort required
to learn, understand, and impliment the tool is contrary to human nature

[CaseyJones]

I started before the internet....... used book stores.....library discards
flea markets.....yard sales.... pawn shops....... curb side trash......the back closets
of chem and physics labs at cleaning time.

"Back in the day" I had difficulty findin' technical publications. Hell, Fender schematics and layouts were like some kind of deep dark secret. Pittman's Tube Amp Book brought us a pretty good collection of the good ones. Now what we need is Supro Heaven...

I guess the old timers had to get a little bit older and earn their wings. Tube manuals never used to show up at used book stores, now I can choose between dozens of them on the 'net. I inherited a pretty good technical library. I figure it's industrial history and I love industrial history. I guess I get that from The Nuclear Age, the way we figured it we'd emerge from the shelters and have to re-create civilization from scratch. We'd have to repeat history, see? We are repeating history, you get to be Leo Fender and I get to be Jim Marshall. I get to be Leo tomorrow...

its the mind set of the consumer market that gets me.... its not that its a throw-away culture
its if something is inconvienent, the length to which people will go to not have to
invest effort of any sort to reach any sort of resolution..... its a dependence
they pay twenty some odd dollars plus the strings for a string change so they dont even have to
make the effort to learn how..... ya cant fix stupid.... as the saying goes....

Good ideas are where ya find 'em, some of 'em are right in front of our noses. Like old tweed Fenders, people sprayed 'em black 'cuz they weren't the latest thing then stuck 'em in a closet 'cuz they didn't have reverb. Dig 'em out, spark 'em up, replace a few parts and they're good for another 50 years. Remember that next time you work on some Rice Krispies Blues Deluxe!

technology has created a gulf between man and his tools .....when the effort required
to learn, understand, and impliment the tool is contrary to human nature

Apathy has created a gulf between man and his tools. O.k., maybe technology has... every zit faced kid walks down the street oblivious, their nose in a cel phone. Same kid, slack jawed, droolin' down his shirt all glassy-eyed in front of a video game when he gets home. Virtual reality ain't actual reality. Actual reality is when we pay billions to blow up roads and bridges somewhere else while roads and bridges fall to ruin for free here.

Well, even stupid people can set priorities. Except that stupid people set stupid priorities!