Two Signals Into The Same Amp?

[DarthTangYang]

Hello!

Would it be possible to run a signal with wet effects into the FX-Return of an amp while simultaneously running a clean, dry (isolated) signal straight into the front of the amp and through the dirty channel of its preamp? Can an amp handle two different signals at the same time and basically act as sort of a mixer? Or would there be some weird stuff happening in the power section?

[nworbetan]

It might be possible. Weird stuff might happen in the power section though.

If you want a better answer than that you'll need to, at a minimum, say which amp you're asking about. If it's an obscure amp posting a schematic will get even better replies.

[DarthTangYang]

hughes_and_kettner_vortex.pdf

It might be possible. Weird stuff might happen in the power section though.

If you want a better answer than that you'll need to, at a minimum, say which amp you're asking about. If it's an obscure amp posting a schematic will get even better replies.

I've attached the schematics of the amp in question. In fact I have two as these will be part of my W/D/W setup. The amps are two Hughes & Kettner Vortex Black Series 100W heads (Solid State).

[pdf64]

Hello!

Would it be possible to run a signal with wet effects into the FX-Return of an amp while simultaneously running a clean, dry (isolated) signal straight into the front of the amp and through the dirty channel of its preamp? Can an amp handle two different signals at the same time and basically act as sort of a mixer? Or would there be some weird stuff happening in the power section?

So the wet effect signal is wet only, with no dry signal in there?

[DarthTangYang]

Hello!

Would it be possible to run a signal with wet effects into the FX-Return of an amp while simultaneously running a clean, dry (isolated) signal straight into the front of the amp and through the dirty channel of its preamp? Can an amp handle two different signals at the same time and basically act as sort of a mixer? Or would there be some weird stuff happening in the power section?

So the wet effect signal is wet only, with no dry signal in there?

Correct.

[DarthTangYang]

If it works I could hook up a volume pedal to the dry signals going into the preamps to control the amount of signal If I want. And I could even place distortion/overdrive pedals there to shape the type of distortion in order to compliment the distortion in my main amp (the dry amp). Many people use line mixers to this in order to not only have wet effects in the two wet amps but I've never heard of anyone doing it this way before. Sure, I need two splitters to do it but I can't see why it wouldn't work. Essentially, this is what you normally do to an amp when you're using one amp only and want to use wet effect pedals, right? You run your guitar into the front of the amp (its preamp) and then run your wet effects in the FX-Loop. The only difference here is that the FX-Send is empty and,the signal is coming from an outside source.

[nworbetan]

Looks like you'll need to bypass the switching built into the line in jack that disconnects the preamp signal when you plug into the line in.

After you get that issue sorted out, running both signals into the opamp following the master volume means you'll typically need to keep the mv lower than you used to. If you turn the mv up too high you'll run into the same weird issues with the power section that you already expect to run into in this solid state amp that you're already familiar with.

As per usual, my "shoot from the hip" first take isn't fully fleshed out.

If you plug something with a low enough output impedance into the modified line input, it may have the side effect of lowering the output of the amp's preamp and potentially affecting the tone in a negative way. This is partially just fear mongering on my part because I can't say how severe the side effect may be at a glance. This particular side effect isn't weird though, and doesn't come from the power amp, per se.

[DarthTangYang]

Looks like you'll need to bypass the switching built into the line in jack that disconnects the preamp signal when you plug into the line in.

How can it do that? I mean, in normal use of an amp with an FX-Loop you plug your guitar into the front (preamp) and then run a loop out through your wet effects and back again. If the FX-Return disconnects the preamp when plugging into it then... well, that would kill the entire signal path, wouldn't it?

After you get that issue sorted out, running both signals into the opamp following the master volume means you'll typically need to keep the mv lower than you used to. If you turn the mv up too high you'll run into the same weird issues with the power section that you already expect to run into in this solid state amp that you're already familiar with.

Not sure I understand this.

[Reeltarded]

Draw a picture of your signal path with all inputs, outputs shown and noted.

And no, you cant run a dry signal and a wet signal without submixers.

[Reeltarded]

im done GOOGLE A COMMON SETUP AND FOLLOW IT

[DarthTangYang]

im done GOOGLE A COMMON SETUP AND FOLLOW IT

I'm confused, are you pissed off because I'm asking a question you can't answer or because you don't like the question?

[Stevem]

There’s one big consideration in doing this and that’s how the phase may change between the two input signals if one of them is going thru a different numbed of gain stages then the other.

You might end up with the tone being like that of a Strat in the out of phase middle pickup position.

[DarthTangYang]

There’s one big consideration in doing this and that’s how the phase may change between the two input signals if one of them is going thru a different numbed of gain stages then the other.

You might end up with the tone being like that of a Strat in the out of phase middle pickup position.

Sure, but since I'm splitting the signal I have the option to phase reverse.

[nworbetan]

There’s one big consideration in doing this and that’s how the phase may change between the two input signals if one of them is going thru a different numbed of gain stages then the other.

You might end up with the tone being like that of a Strat in the out of phase middle pickup position.

The question pdf64 asked makes this kind of a little bit of a moot point.

If the two signals being mixed were both dry then one being inverted or not would make a huge difference.

With the given info that one signal is wet only, it's safe to assume that mixing the wet and dry signals will have potential phase cancellation issues whether the wet signal is inverted or not.

To elaborate a tiny bit for enhanced clarity: an inverted wet signal and a non-inverted wet signal are both going to have the possibility of cancelling out some portion of the dry signal because both of the wet signals are assumed to have phase shifts regardless of whether they're inverted or not. The degree to which the dry signal is cancelled will depend on what effect exactly is causing the "wetness" just as much as whether the wet signal is inverted or not.

[Stevem]

If one of the two signals is ever run thru a compressor then I guarantee you it will come out the reverse phase of how it entered the compressor.

Now depending on things this swap may help or hurt .