Aaron wrote:I'm at the stage where I am starting to sell amps, so have been organizing safety approvals. Legally, anything electrical in Australia, if it doesn't have the safety tick and something goes horribly bad you can be liable for damages or even worse up on manslaughter charges I was told today.
But have noticed not many builders out there have them, also I see a lot of people assembling kits and selling them.
My question is, are the laws different everywhere or is it a matter of fine print, as in "buying this amp you use it at your own risk and we're are not responsible".
Thanks,
Aaron
Hi Aaron,
Here is some advice (if from the US) from a business man (mfg) and former General Manager of a retail chain of stores. All, some, or none may be applicable in Oz, but this should enter into the discussion. My only connection to OZ is my Grandmother's father went to the Australian goldfields, struck it rich and returned with an Australian wife, my Great Grandmother.
If you are going into business, do this in a business like fashion, and do a cost analysis (do the research) on the following:
By all means get safety certification, which will be helpful in sales, but certification wouldn't let me sleep a wink at night. In the most lawsuit happy company in the world (USA), here are some things that will help lessen the worry from constantly down to a dull subconscious nagging in the back of one's mind:
Get product liability insurance on your product. I do not know about OZ, but I wouldn't be suprized to find that said policies exists as insurance companies are as ubiquitous as lawyers, attorneys, solicitors.
So number one on my list is contact an insurance agent (hopefully you have insurance) to refer you to an insurance broker who specializes in product liability insurance and get quotes and if cost effective insurance.
Number two on my list, Incorporate or the equivalent. In the US we have Corporations, INC; and Limited Liability Company, LLC or LTD,. I will refer to the above as INCS collectively. Besides being an artificial entity (INCS really aren't people) to raise money, INCS give you the protection of the what is called the corporate veil. Your company maybe sued, but the INCS limit how much a hit you take, unless you do not follow proper Corporate procedure (meetings, filings, etc).
You will need an attorney and a tax preparer (either an attorney who specializes in taxes or as in the US, a Certified Public Accountant) to determine what provides you the best protection and minimal tax liability for your business (and to do your taxes, only a fool would do his business's taxes).
I believe these are of greater importance or at least equal importance to product certification.
Certification doesn't just stop at getting a product approved.
You must check with everyone of your components suppliers and/or manufacturers' for certification and liability insurance for every part you purchase, be it transformers, resistors or caps, electrical wiring, electric chord, etc. ad nauseum.
In the States, you would be held liable if the part that failed and injured or electrocuted and you would be without financial recourse to sue the manufacturer of said product, who if a small time winder of transformers chooses to declare bankruptcy than to pay you through the court because he doesn't have insurance and you had to sue him to recover costs. You may end up paying the plaintiff (who also sued the manufacturer) all their legal and court expenses as wells as being sued.
So you have product liability insurance and your suppliers have product liability insurance, an Inc, LLC, or LTD status.
As to certification; there is a saying in the US, many houses burn down from electrical fires cause by UL approved product failures. UL also approves fire doors, so what? As to the approval it's no guarantee. If your approval is from a Government Agency, guess what?. Something goes wrong and the Govt. disowns any liability to your product.
But in either case in the preceding paragraph, you have a stronger position in court. And a fire (for example) or electrocution (another example) is caused by the owner improperly using the equipment (night clubs electrical wiring wasn't up to code, or the musician played out doors in a Rainstorm).
Of course it's never the purchasers' fault. (sarcasm)
Get a copy of other manufacturers owners manuals and examine recent amps with all the legal disclaimers made and/or sold with approval in OZ.
Put these past your lawyer or a lawyer who specializes in said items.
Just my Two Cents worth.
Best regards,
Steve
PS I like Fender Vintage products. These to my memory had UL approval.
By the Rivera Fender ERA (which I do not like) the last amps to be built in Fullerton, California, the certification had for economics (damn MBA bean counters, accountants rule MI companies) was reduced to Los Angeles County Fire Dept approval. (Fullerton is in LA County) A Fire Marshall inspected the amp and then give a little circular pressure adhesive sticker to the product line. No tests other than a visual inspection. It was the minimum Fender could get by with. In other words, they were being cheap asses.
In the course of business in the last year or so a conversation with a former UL employee who bemoaned that most companies get CE certification (it's cheaper) and no longer use UL. Most products with UL approval in the US are made China made and tested in Chinese branches of UL. Engenders confidence (sarcasm, and I am married to a mainland Chinese lady).
A friend of mine required a certification for a Chinese Herbal supplement from at a trade show (for internal use), and the representative took out a pad and signed off on the product. My friend quickly went to on to another supplier. Just saying, remembering the No Lead Paint that had lead paint in Fisher Price Toys for young children.
In my 28 years of retail, I can think of only one product liability issue (most major insurance issues at the point of lawsuits were with with employees or customers who claimed fraudulently they had been in injured, only one suit occurred over a legitimate injury when the insurance company refused to pay and the former employee had no recourse but to sue the company over fractured/slipped discs).
A customer came in and harangued me for 3 hours that B-Complex she ingested had caused an auto-immune disorder which had resulted from the product. I stated she would have to contact the manufacturer, however, I also informed her that the their was nothing in NIH Medical Libraries, associated 40 years of clinical literature, or in peer review medical publications to connect any B-Complex Vitamin or associated factor with auto immune disorders as a causative factor.
The manufacturer was contacted (by the customer and and by the company I worked for). The mfg said no-way there was anything in B-Complex that would last in the body longer than several hours or cause such a condition. They told her "See you in court."
Long story made short, a doctor who was also a customer (and friend) came in after another encounter with the lady (her approach had become more abusive towards me personally), and asked why I was down in the mouth; I explained the situation and the medical condition involved. He asked what the lady's name (turned out to be his patient). Without any additional imput, the Doctor suggested our insurance company contact her and state they would request her medical records under discovery during lawsuit from the clinic he worked for.
That was the end of the law suit (turns out she had the condition for 5+ years), and the Doctor he kept everything closed lipped was her doctor. It wasn't the first time, either.
So even with the best or precautions (product liability insurance, supplement company carried product liability insurance, company I worked for was a corporation owned by a corporation) there is no guarantee that you won't get sued.
