Anyone else love a Blackface Marshall?

[LeftyStrat]

Of all the amps I have built, something about running a blackface preamp into a Marshall power amp (PI and EL34's) just really does it for me.

I love those "clean with hair" tones where soft playing is Fender clean, but hit it a little hard and you get some grit. An EL34-based power amp just seems to have a more natural clean to distortion playing curve.

I modded my JTM45 to used EL34's with a transformer mismatch (3.3k), played with the slope resistor and tone stack values and placement, and upped the preamp filtering to 32uf, and got very close to the Germino Club 40. Of course Emerson Swinford's playing probably has more to do with the sound of this clip. But this is Righteous Godly Tone IMHO.

http://www.germinoamps.com/audio/tribute.mp3

[dartanion]

I just modded this one one a few months back for EL34s. I built it over a year ago from a total basket case DSR. I does sound quite cool. Vibrato channel is modded for extra crunchiness.

[skyboltone]

Of all the amps I have built, something about running a blackface preamp into a Marshall power amp (PI and EL34's) just really does it for me.

I love those "clean with hair" tones where soft playing is Fender clean, but hit it a little hard and you get some grit. An EL34-based power amp just seems to have a more natural clean to distortion playing curve.

I modded my JTM45 to used EL34's with a transformer mismatch (3.3k), played with the slope resistor and tone stack values and placement, and upped the preamp filtering to 32uf, and got very close to the Germino Club 40. Of course Emerson Swinford's playing probably has more to do with the sound of this clip. But this is Righteous Godly Tone IMHO.

http://www.germinoamps.com/audio/tribute.mp3

Wow. I'll go for some of that. 3.3K with EL-34s? I wonder about his strat too. Do you know anything about the instrument he's using? After my tele build I do think I'll dip into Strat waters.

[LeftyStrat]

Wow. I'll go for some of that. 3.3K with EL-34s? I wonder about his strat too. Do you know anything about the instrument he's using? After my tele build I do think I'll dip into Strat waters.

I misspoke about the 3.3k. My OT has 6.6k and 8k taps. I'm actually using the 8k tap with mismatch, so that's 4k.

The guitar used on the clips was a stock 71 strat.

[Johnhenry]

Hey Lefty, Thank's for the Link Brother, I Luv a Guitar Player with a great touch on the fret board and Emerson for sure has it !
I find a lot of young player's can really get some tone going, but, somewhere along the way they let someone change thier style or maybe they grow tired of the same tone ? I don't figure it sometime's !
When I was 16 i was Lucky to know and talk with one of my Guitar Hero's,
Mel Bay, he told me something I never thought much of until I was older and Teching for all the younger player's and i noticed this a lot, seems every week they had a new amp or guitar ?
Mel told me as I was buying my first big amp that if i kept it and the guitar i was playing for the next 100 year's i would still be learning new tone's that 1 rig could make !
Now that i'll be 60 year's old this week I now know there was a lot of wisdom in his word's,
Hope Emerson can stay true to hinself and keep making Sweet Music like that until he's to old to play that thing, LOL !
John Henry

[LeftyStrat]

You know, you are so right about the whole GAS thing (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). I think many young players (and some older ones), think that that elusive tone is just around the corner with the next amp or next pedal.

I've always thought that an amp, and even some pedals, were instruments that you need to learn how to play. They have subtle nuances that you need to learn and explore, just like guitars. You don't play a Strat the same way you play a Les Paul. Instead of buying an amp expecting it to sound like <insert favorite tone here>, learn what the amp has to say. It's why I am so attracted to Wrecks and Dumbles, they really have a lot of territory to explore.

I have to give a lot of credit to Glen (geetarpicker on here), he's one of those guys that is a true Les Paul player when he's playing his Paul, and a true Strat player when he's playing his Strat. Most of us mere mortals could spend a lifetime discovering the secrets of just one of those guitars.

BTW, Happy Birthday.

[Johnhenry]

Thank you ! gotta good Sunday afternoon Blue's Jam At Santa's here in S.A. to help me celebrate being 60 year's young ! LOl !
Gonna make the best out of it.
We think the same on this G.A.S. you talk about, for a player it's BAD ! for a collector it's great !
the B/F tone into EL 34's has alway's been 1 of my Fav's, that's why i Loved Pete Traynor's take on a Bassman, i've built some real tone machine's out of his amp's !
I'm no E.E., but i've been workin on this stuff for most of my life.
here's a kid that when he was playin a Strat and a SuperReverb, he drew a very big crowd here in town, http://www.myspace.com/rubenvband
i'm retired now and no longer tech for anyone, just building me some stuff for a change, Havin Fun !
JohnHenry

[seljetnoma]

What exactly do you guys mean with a blackface preamp with a el34 power section?
Isn't this Germino amp just a take of a 5f6/jtm45 preamp into a el34 section?
It sure sounds great tough, this player has a great touch!!

Frank

[bueller]

I love those "clean with hair" tones where soft playing is Fender clean, but hit it a little hard and you get some grit. An EL34-based power amp just seems to have a more natural clean to distortion playing curve.

LeftyStrat, what negative feedback are you using if any? It seems to me that amps without negative feedback have a smoother transition into distortion that one with a lot. Although I find I need the neg. feedback for the really high gainy Marshall stuff.

I just finished up a EL34, cathode biased power section with a Matchless Chieftain style pre-amp and tone controls. That design has no negative feedback and uses the PI to mix in the reverb. I messed with the tube values and I added a third gain stage in between the stock values, ala K.F. style. Talk about clean with hair! Soon as I get the reverb sorted out (too much decay), I'll post some clips.

[Johnhenry]

Lefty, just went and checked out Germino's amp's, Very Good sounding amp for havin those ol' " Nasty, Dirty soundin C/C resistor's " !
Thank's for the link !
JohnHenry

[jelle]

I agree about he combination of BF preamp into a Plexi PI and EL34's. I think the EL34's arent even required to make it sound cool. Just mix and goof around!

VERY COOL CLIP BTW....

[dobbhill]

Trainwreck Express would qualify, yes?
Me like!

[jelle]

Yeah but if you'd put the BF tonestack in there it would still be cool even without the third clipper stage.

Jelle

[LeftyStrat]

What exactly do you guys mean with a blackface preamp with a el34 power section?
Isn't this Germino amp just a take of a 5f6/jtm45 preamp into a el34 section?
It sure sounds great tough, this player has a great touch!!

Frank

I guess my post was misleading. The Germino Club 40 used in those clips is pretty much a jtm45, with higher filtering in the preamp section into el34's. There is also mention of the preamp having "flat response" which to me means he probably dropped the value of that first cathode cap to get rid of the boomy bottom of the jtm45. However, just running EL34's in a JTM45 definitely moves in the direction of the sound on those clips.

I've been playing with a blackface preamp into a Marshall power and PI stage, and I just thought those clips sound very close to what I have right now (well, minus the touch of an excellent player).

[LeftyStrat]

LeftyStrat, what negative feedback are you using if any? It seems to me that amps without negative feedback have a smoother transition into distortion that one with a lot. Although I find I need the neg. feedback for the really high gainy Marshall stuff.

I just finished up a EL34, cathode biased power section with a Matchless Chieftain style pre-amp and tone controls. That design has no negative feedback and uses the PI to mix in the reverb. I messed with the tube values and I added a third gain stage in between the stock values, ala K.F. style. Talk about clean with hair! Soon as I get the reverb sorted out (too much decay), I'll post some clips.

I haven't settled on anything I like. I agree with you, for "clean on the edge", seems like no negative feedback gives a smoother transition, but then the high gain stuff doesn't sound good and the bass seems to loose "focus". I'm hoping this weekend to pull the OT I have in there now and replace it with a Dynaco A470 OT, and play with the ultra linear taps. I may hate it, but I won't know until I try.

I wonder if anyone has tried using a dual pot for a master volume and variable negative feedback? As you turn the amp up, it would increase the negative feedback.

I haven't built anything using EL34's with cathode bias, but it is high on my list. I would love to hear some clips of your amp.