Bruno schematic
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
Bruno Cowtipper amp experience.....
O.k., I've avoided getting in to these forums but couldn't hold out any longer. I'm a busy fellow, a musician who repairs and builds tube amps himself and don't have too much time for these but I feel compelled to share my own Bruno story. Some of you might remember a fellow who was thrown off one of these forums for what some called "Bruno bashing". He was talking about his Cowtipper 90 which he paid $2700 for and had me replace every cap in the house with Sozos and all transformers with Mercury Magnetics. this story started a battle on this forum about what creates good tone etc. Now, first let me say his choosing to upgrade those part were purely his choice, the amp sounded fine with the Fender transformers and Orange drop caps. IMHO the amp sounded better with the new parts but that's not what I'm writing about. I'm writing about the build quality. The owner of the amp was being very nice in his descriptions when he was writing about his experience. I can't be so nice.
When he got the amp input #2 did not work. He called Bruno and was met with a solid "send it back, I don't want anyone looking in my amp!" the customer, who is a professional musician said he couldn't, he had gigs coming up and he's taking it to me to get it fixed. When he brought it to me I opened it up and had to do everything I could to not crack up. I'm not being mean here, just honest. I've built many amps before and I'm not saying my builds are as tidy as a Hiwatt, but I know a good amp when I see it. This wasn't it man! First thing, the input wire and all the signal wires were the green Fender solid core heavy guage heater wire that we are all familiar with. I don't know why one would choose that and since there was no slack on the wire as one of you folks said, the 68k input resistor was broken during shipping. No big deal, I just wired in a new resistor and we're o.k.
Then I noticed the high voltage b+ line going to the standby switch was the same green wire and IT WASN"T SOLDERED to the switch. OOPS! O.K., we all make mistakes but a simple chopstick test would have found this bad or un-solder joint. Soldered it and we're o.k.?
I didn't like the input wire and wire coming off the volume control arrangement though, and I told my client this. There was the input wire right next to the wire coming off the volume control just like Fender used to do but they were wrapped in foil and this was glued to the top of the tone capacitors. The foil wasn't grounded or anything and I jus didn't dig the way it looked. I told my client right then and there that I smelled trouble in that and that I wanted to change that wiring arrangement right away before his gigs. He replied stubbornly: "don't touch it, it'll affect the tone! Tony Bruno knows what he's doing and this won't be right. I said, o.k. fine, I just dont feel good about it!
That night I get a call on my Cell. "Dude, I'm sitting in my apartment and my amp from 1-3 gets louder and from 3-9 gets softer and it's on 10 and it's as loud as a dreadnaught! My neighbors ain't complainin'!!!" I said, bring it back tommorrow morning. First thing that went through my mind was that wire and foil arrangement, a parasite no doubt! When my client arrived he said: "Tony is going to call you at 1 p.m. and talk you through the process." I said he didn't need to do that but I'd be delighted to talk to him!
Three days goes by and no phone call. My client borrows an amp for his gigs and when I get tired of looking at this Cowtipper, I opened it up, took a chopstick and moved those wires and BOOM. BIG TONE! Parasitic oscillation gone!!!!! I called my client and let him know. He was thrilled and asked if Tony helped. I said no, he never called and remember that foil and wire arrangement.......
From that point on my client was really bummed and discouraged about his amp and that's when he started having me replace everything in the house. I wasn't for it at first but when all was said and done, his amp really killed it tonally. Big, fat and very 3-D. And he just had me build him a Super Reverb clone this summer which he's rocking these days!
This is how it happened. There are lots of builders out there, some very good and some just need to re-examine their work before charging so much. We live in a golden age of parts and small craft and I think it's great. I also have to say it's really a buyer beware world out there and it's good to educate yourself and ask opinions of those with experience.
Gotta get back to soldering, I have lot's of wotk to do before the weekend is over! JB, Leighton Audio
When he got the amp input #2 did not work. He called Bruno and was met with a solid "send it back, I don't want anyone looking in my amp!" the customer, who is a professional musician said he couldn't, he had gigs coming up and he's taking it to me to get it fixed. When he brought it to me I opened it up and had to do everything I could to not crack up. I'm not being mean here, just honest. I've built many amps before and I'm not saying my builds are as tidy as a Hiwatt, but I know a good amp when I see it. This wasn't it man! First thing, the input wire and all the signal wires were the green Fender solid core heavy guage heater wire that we are all familiar with. I don't know why one would choose that and since there was no slack on the wire as one of you folks said, the 68k input resistor was broken during shipping. No big deal, I just wired in a new resistor and we're o.k.
Then I noticed the high voltage b+ line going to the standby switch was the same green wire and IT WASN"T SOLDERED to the switch. OOPS! O.K., we all make mistakes but a simple chopstick test would have found this bad or un-solder joint. Soldered it and we're o.k.?
I didn't like the input wire and wire coming off the volume control arrangement though, and I told my client this. There was the input wire right next to the wire coming off the volume control just like Fender used to do but they were wrapped in foil and this was glued to the top of the tone capacitors. The foil wasn't grounded or anything and I jus didn't dig the way it looked. I told my client right then and there that I smelled trouble in that and that I wanted to change that wiring arrangement right away before his gigs. He replied stubbornly: "don't touch it, it'll affect the tone! Tony Bruno knows what he's doing and this won't be right. I said, o.k. fine, I just dont feel good about it!
That night I get a call on my Cell. "Dude, I'm sitting in my apartment and my amp from 1-3 gets louder and from 3-9 gets softer and it's on 10 and it's as loud as a dreadnaught! My neighbors ain't complainin'!!!" I said, bring it back tommorrow morning. First thing that went through my mind was that wire and foil arrangement, a parasite no doubt! When my client arrived he said: "Tony is going to call you at 1 p.m. and talk you through the process." I said he didn't need to do that but I'd be delighted to talk to him!
Three days goes by and no phone call. My client borrows an amp for his gigs and when I get tired of looking at this Cowtipper, I opened it up, took a chopstick and moved those wires and BOOM. BIG TONE! Parasitic oscillation gone!!!!! I called my client and let him know. He was thrilled and asked if Tony helped. I said no, he never called and remember that foil and wire arrangement.......
From that point on my client was really bummed and discouraged about his amp and that's when he started having me replace everything in the house. I wasn't for it at first but when all was said and done, his amp really killed it tonally. Big, fat and very 3-D. And he just had me build him a Super Reverb clone this summer which he's rocking these days!
This is how it happened. There are lots of builders out there, some very good and some just need to re-examine their work before charging so much. We live in a golden age of parts and small craft and I think it's great. I also have to say it's really a buyer beware world out there and it's good to educate yourself and ask opinions of those with experience.
Gotta get back to soldering, I have lot's of wotk to do before the weekend is over! JB, Leighton Audio
Re: Bruno schematic
That was a really interesting read.
Re: Bruno schematic
"An accomplished guitarist with over 1000 amp designs to his credit"
"Each Bruno amp incorporates heavy duty and overrated components with neatly routed and laced wiring to insure flawless operation."
"Tony builds each amp like a tank"
"Each Bruno amp incorporates heavy duty and overrated components with neatly routed and laced wiring to insure flawless operation."
"Tony builds each amp like a tank"
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tele_player
- Posts: 311
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:27 am
Re: Bruno schematic
(deleted by tele_player)
Re: Bruno schematic
I would like to put in my 2cents worth too. I will say first that I’m only sharing my personal thoughts and nothing here is written to accuse anyone. I’m only looking to bring forward some questions that I find reasonably fair. I also write about a personal experience of a certain amp maker but I do not say WHO he is, because I’m trying only to look at the moral side of this matter, and my personal story is only used as an example to this matter.
This whole subject can get a little crazy. I don't doubt for a second that Bruno knows what he's doing (whether in this case that a positive thing or not) and that he knows tone, but that doesn't have to add up with his ethics and sales tactic. As Andy mentioned earlier, rephrased by me; Bruno can't sell those “prototypes” and expect people to feel all happy, happy feelings inside when they look inside their amp to see why their amp don’t work right. That just doesn’t surprise me! Did these people know they paid full price for a “prototype”? I’m just asking, not accusing. I ones bought an amp that promised that for its high price it was build with only the best hand selected parts and that all the parts were carefully put in place to interact with each other thereby creating the unique tone that could only be bought from this amp builder. Meaning; if I decided to replace a cap or resistor (to benefit me) I would mess up the golden tone, because that exact brand of cap or resistor was chosen purposely in combination with everything else in there to create that heavenly tone. That maybe true to some, but to me, it’s mambo jumbo. It can’t be no secret here that you can interchange parts to finely tweak an amp to benefit you better, people do it all the time, but to claim that your design is so unique and come up with stories about parts interacting with each other in a way that so extreme that you’ll destroy your amp if you look inside and mess with it, is like and old myth or tale about going to hell if you touch your self in the wrong way. I find it absurd and crazy. It was so obvious to me that for some reason this amp builder DO NOT want you to look inside that amp. That also adds up to why he’s “so kind” to pay for the shipping to ship the amp back to him so he can “fix it” (with the right brand of parts of course…lol) well… some people can’t wait a month or more and then take the risk of UPS dropping it on it’s head on the way back to you so you have to do the whole thing all over again. I myself have no money or time to play that game. I have played many big shows and shared the stage with some very successful musician but I myself am still struggling to make it. Ones I invested all my savings in a certain amp , because the past two amps I had bought did not do the job right and also kept braking down on me on the road. So to me it was like a death blow when I had to go through even more troubles than ever before on top of having spent that much money. And to find Japanese reissue Fender Twin transformers (the best hand selected parts?)All around inside did not help my mood either. They were dark blue and stamped Fender on the bottom! If the amp is build right they can work and sound great that’s true, but I just think that other brands out there will make an amp more musical and much better sounding. And I find in particular the output tranny to be a very important part of how and amp feels and responses. For that amount of money I think Bruno could have done better and avoided all this talk. I also think there is a problem with the sales service involving sales reps that don’t even know what AB763 means… WTF!
They simply don’t have the knowledge to probably guide you. I could live with that if I was buying a $300 amp at Guitar Centre, but a Bruno for BIG $$$.... NO WAY. Tone is of course in the end not really a fact but a personal opinion, so that tells me that Bruno simply really feels that the Japanese reissue Fender transformers are the best made today or that the secret and special hand selected caps and resistors, pots, wires etc. are put together in such a unique and different new way (AB763?) that makes up for what the transformers are lacking? To me that’s just very strange and weird. IMHO I think there’s enough proof in this forum to ask some reasonably fair questions on this matter and that’s my right as the consumer, it’s my money! There are plenty of Great amp builder out there that are willing to guide you and give you excellent customer service mostly on your terms so why go through all the hassle. BRUNO amps might be great but they are certainly not the end of all TONE GOD. Are you gooping your design to cover up your secret original design or are you covering up that you just cloned another design? I played a couple of Brunos and personally found them just okay, and that reverb to die for….. Hmm, I’ve heard better and certainly equals.
That’s just my personal opinion and I hope I did not step on anybodys toes.
"An accomplished guitarist with over 1000 amp designs to his credit" ???
"Each Bruno amp incorporates heavy duty and overrated components with neatly routed and laced wiring to insure flawless operation." ???
"Tony builds each amp like a tank" ???
Well, That's obviously what's up for discussion on this forum!
This whole subject can get a little crazy. I don't doubt for a second that Bruno knows what he's doing (whether in this case that a positive thing or not) and that he knows tone, but that doesn't have to add up with his ethics and sales tactic. As Andy mentioned earlier, rephrased by me; Bruno can't sell those “prototypes” and expect people to feel all happy, happy feelings inside when they look inside their amp to see why their amp don’t work right. That just doesn’t surprise me! Did these people know they paid full price for a “prototype”? I’m just asking, not accusing. I ones bought an amp that promised that for its high price it was build with only the best hand selected parts and that all the parts were carefully put in place to interact with each other thereby creating the unique tone that could only be bought from this amp builder. Meaning; if I decided to replace a cap or resistor (to benefit me) I would mess up the golden tone, because that exact brand of cap or resistor was chosen purposely in combination with everything else in there to create that heavenly tone. That maybe true to some, but to me, it’s mambo jumbo. It can’t be no secret here that you can interchange parts to finely tweak an amp to benefit you better, people do it all the time, but to claim that your design is so unique and come up with stories about parts interacting with each other in a way that so extreme that you’ll destroy your amp if you look inside and mess with it, is like and old myth or tale about going to hell if you touch your self in the wrong way. I find it absurd and crazy. It was so obvious to me that for some reason this amp builder DO NOT want you to look inside that amp. That also adds up to why he’s “so kind” to pay for the shipping to ship the amp back to him so he can “fix it” (with the right brand of parts of course…lol) well… some people can’t wait a month or more and then take the risk of UPS dropping it on it’s head on the way back to you so you have to do the whole thing all over again. I myself have no money or time to play that game. I have played many big shows and shared the stage with some very successful musician but I myself am still struggling to make it. Ones I invested all my savings in a certain amp , because the past two amps I had bought did not do the job right and also kept braking down on me on the road. So to me it was like a death blow when I had to go through even more troubles than ever before on top of having spent that much money. And to find Japanese reissue Fender Twin transformers (the best hand selected parts?)All around inside did not help my mood either. They were dark blue and stamped Fender on the bottom! If the amp is build right they can work and sound great that’s true, but I just think that other brands out there will make an amp more musical and much better sounding. And I find in particular the output tranny to be a very important part of how and amp feels and responses. For that amount of money I think Bruno could have done better and avoided all this talk. I also think there is a problem with the sales service involving sales reps that don’t even know what AB763 means… WTF!
They simply don’t have the knowledge to probably guide you. I could live with that if I was buying a $300 amp at Guitar Centre, but a Bruno for BIG $$$.... NO WAY. Tone is of course in the end not really a fact but a personal opinion, so that tells me that Bruno simply really feels that the Japanese reissue Fender transformers are the best made today or that the secret and special hand selected caps and resistors, pots, wires etc. are put together in such a unique and different new way (AB763?) that makes up for what the transformers are lacking? To me that’s just very strange and weird. IMHO I think there’s enough proof in this forum to ask some reasonably fair questions on this matter and that’s my right as the consumer, it’s my money! There are plenty of Great amp builder out there that are willing to guide you and give you excellent customer service mostly on your terms so why go through all the hassle. BRUNO amps might be great but they are certainly not the end of all TONE GOD. Are you gooping your design to cover up your secret original design or are you covering up that you just cloned another design? I played a couple of Brunos and personally found them just okay, and that reverb to die for….. Hmm, I’ve heard better and certainly equals.
That’s just my personal opinion and I hope I did not step on anybodys toes.
"An accomplished guitarist with over 1000 amp designs to his credit" ???
"Each Bruno amp incorporates heavy duty and overrated components with neatly routed and laced wiring to insure flawless operation." ???
"Tony builds each amp like a tank" ???
Well, That's obviously what's up for discussion on this forum!
To the-tone
IMHO You are mistaken in your assumption that specific parts are NOT picked because of how they sound together. Not only are those specific parts chosen but the position and proximity to each other as well as their associated wiring are also carefully planned. Do some homework and read up on Dumble or Trainwreck amps. You can clone them and use whatever brand parts you want in whatever layout you want, but when you turn it on and expect it to sound like the original you will generally be disappointed. If you read up at the Amp Garage you will learn that the difference in sound between certain resistor and or capacitor brands is amazing. It has been proven over and over thousands of times by hundreds and hundreds of hobbyists and techies that try to clone those amps and are unsuccessfull in acieving "the-tone" only to discover they did not use the prescribed parts in the proper layout with the proper lead dress.
Regards
Regards
Re: Bruno schematic
Jack,
You're right about that but I was referring to his cow tipper(AB763!) on that matter, sorry if that was not obvious enough. Besides for that please don't assume I don't know about amps because this is my first post here and please don't assume I don't know about difference between caps and resistors and have not done my homework. I have ALL my gear build to certain specs with certain parts and I have researched this for years. so I do know a little about that matter for a fact. I just think that Bruno is out of his mind if he thinks you'll mess up his design is you exchange a couple of his caps for another brand or value. Will it change the tone that he designed, OH YES and that was certainly also my goal.
And btw, to me; Bruno is no Dumble! I don't really care for what any Magazine has to say more than I do critics reviews of cd's. Britney Spears was/is popular but I still find her unappealing! All we have is the facts that some people have brought up here in this forum. Bruno could/should have done better, that's all I'm saying.
PS: nice samples on your website.
You're right about that but I was referring to his cow tipper(AB763!) on that matter, sorry if that was not obvious enough. Besides for that please don't assume I don't know about amps because this is my first post here and please don't assume I don't know about difference between caps and resistors and have not done my homework. I have ALL my gear build to certain specs with certain parts and I have researched this for years. so I do know a little about that matter for a fact. I just think that Bruno is out of his mind if he thinks you'll mess up his design is you exchange a couple of his caps for another brand or value. Will it change the tone that he designed, OH YES and that was certainly also my goal.
And btw, to me; Bruno is no Dumble! I don't really care for what any Magazine has to say more than I do critics reviews of cd's. Britney Spears was/is popular but I still find her unappealing! All we have is the facts that some people have brought up here in this forum. Bruno could/should have done better, that's all I'm saying.
PS: nice samples on your website.
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CaseyJones
- Posts: 856
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:29 pm
Re: Bruno schematic
I'm inspired. Why wouldn't I be? Why wouldn't you be?
From a packaging standpoint a Bruno sure is pretty. I can't believe they're that ugly inside but if that's the case so be it. I've had customers email me pictures of Bruno amps asking me to build them something that looks like that. I can build an amp that looks like a quality piece inside and out. I can build an amp that sounds like a quality piece. I use quality new and NOS parts so I expect my amps to be around long after I'm gone. About the only trick I haven't be able to pull off is to convince the public that I defecate chocolate ice cream and that my amps are worth $6k each. It's just a matter of time, though. Exposure on these forums may be harsh but consumers are becoming better informed, they're getting educated. There are those who will buy a hundred dollar POS because it's inexpensive. Hopefully the days of the expensive (as in $6k) POS are numbered.
I stopped into the Bruno website and what did I see? Mostly the full line which is distinctive... except for an "18 watt tweed". It looks like a Deluxe that got lost on its way over from Victoria.
From a packaging standpoint a Bruno sure is pretty. I can't believe they're that ugly inside but if that's the case so be it. I've had customers email me pictures of Bruno amps asking me to build them something that looks like that. I can build an amp that looks like a quality piece inside and out. I can build an amp that sounds like a quality piece. I use quality new and NOS parts so I expect my amps to be around long after I'm gone. About the only trick I haven't be able to pull off is to convince the public that I defecate chocolate ice cream and that my amps are worth $6k each. It's just a matter of time, though. Exposure on these forums may be harsh but consumers are becoming better informed, they're getting educated. There are those who will buy a hundred dollar POS because it's inexpensive. Hopefully the days of the expensive (as in $6k) POS are numbered.
I stopped into the Bruno website and what did I see? Mostly the full line which is distinctive... except for an "18 watt tweed". It looks like a Deluxe that got lost on its way over from Victoria.
Re: Bruno schematic
I used to work for a DJ equipment manufacturer. I was asked to look at some alternative copy that was going to be used in an ad. It was for their power amps which I was told were of lower quality than the competition. The claims in the ad were praising the fact that these amps were the best amps in the world. I started paying closer attention to audio equipment ads and most seem to do the same.
Marketing mumbo jumbo is everywhere. Fortunately we now have the internet. Knowledge is power and pictures don’t lie. Ads do.
Marketing mumbo jumbo is everywhere. Fortunately we now have the internet. Knowledge is power and pictures don’t lie. Ads do.
If it says "Vintage" on it, -it isn't.