Are Black Sable tubes snakeoil? does it make a difference?

[beasleybodyshop]

http://www.tubedepot.com/bsctfaq.html

thought about getting some Black sable cryogenically treated tubes - anyone had any experience with these? Thoughts? Snake oil? Real deal?

[Reeltarded]

Not even gonna look at the price. Umm..

omg Ok. Either those of RFT/Siemens. I take the RFTs. That is a premium for wishing unicorns were all rainbow colored. Awww.

If they last 30 seconds longer or sound an iota better because they were frozen.. I'll eat a gross of energy bracelets while overdosing on homeopathic heroin.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Leave 'em for the haute fideletegh corque snipheurs Beaze. There's an occasional discussion-punchup @ cryo'd tubes on both Audio Asylum and MEF. The only thing they're sure to do is empty your pocket.

Maybe I should start my own line (of pure BS): vacuum tubes soaked in 5-nines pure liquid krypton. As we all know liquid nitrogen is for pikers. Common stuff. Ordinary people breathe nitrogen all day long - you don't want THAT in your hypersonic hi fi. Krypton - now that's a gas fit for super men!

Keep the amps warm and the beer cold, that's all we rockers need to know.

Here's a link to MEF's long-running cryo tube discussion:

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t12864/

[Cantplay]

I cryo cutting tools frequently, and there is a permanent change in the grain structure of the metal.

Cryo is real. If its an audible change to tubes, and if that change is an improvement is still being debated.

John

[VacuumVoodoo]

Cryo is real. If its an audible change to tubes, and if that change is an improvement is still being debated.
John

Yes, it's still debated by those whose knowledge of physics is rudimentary at best.
If you watch any video/documentary from a tube factory you'll see how annealing of metal structures in tubes is done: by heating up by induction using high power RF coil around the tube and then letting it cool off in room temperature.
The deep freeze outfits I approached didn't agree to treat a matched pair of ID marked tubes, out of a quartet, for the purpose of conducting double blind comparison test against the untreated pair. I think I wrote about this already in another thread many moons ago..
I think I'll apply cryo treatment to some NOS ex soviet PIO capacitors, that should make them feel like back in the USSR

[ToneMerc]

I cryo cutting tools frequently, and there is a permanent change in the grain structure of the metal.

Cryo is real.

John

I agree it's real. In the late 90's I worked out of a shop that performed the process. I used to pitch the process to accuracy shooters, fed gov't and DOD clients. Since I had unlimited access I had the opportunity to run my own batches and cryo anything I desired.

At one point the shop was doing a fair amount of work for some championship NASCAR engine programs in which we were contracted to run some proprietary processes. The NHRA Top Fuel cranks were supposely extended two additional passes.

However, If I was going to be treating vac tubes it would be the metal structures prior to assembly.


TM

[Reeltarded]

I think I'll apply cryo treatment to some NOS ex soviet PIO capacitors, that should make them feel like back in the USSR

haha

Cryo is real. I ahev used bearings treated with it to replace bushings on suspensions with great results. It works great on anything long wearing and bearing a load.

I imagine quite another load in this circumstance though.

[Zippy]

It's for real if the materials being treated undergo a temperature-induced phase transformation. Not all materials do, not even all load-bearing materials.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I cryo cutting tools frequently, and there is a permanent change in the grain structure of the metal.

Cryo is real.

I can understand say, cryo-treated guitar strings. If they are LN quenched just as the string is drawn thru the die, going from red hot to LN temp, OK I can see that would set up a potentially useful grain structure. And if that's how Markley's "Blue Steel" strings are made, fine. Yes they have some extra zing in the high end, but also are a bit brittle & sometimes snap a bit prematurely.

Taking a room temp vac tube, cooling it to LN temp then bringing it back up to room temp, hmm, I don't think so....

[Zippy]

I can understand say, cryo-treated guitar strings. If they are LN quenched just as the string is drawn thru the die, going from red hot to LN temp, OK I can see that would set up a potentially useful grain structure.

That's a different animal. A rapidly quenched microstructure is very fine grained - it's not a matter of transforming to a different phase.

[Leo_Gnardo]

CantPlay, ToneMerc, Zippy, I believe you've done what you said you have - but a little more info if you would indulge me. Did you take metal from room temp to LN temp or from heated-up a couple hundred degrees or more to LN cold? Quenching from heat - yes I expect that would make a difference. Cooling from room temp to ultra cold - then returning to room temp, I'm having a hard time buying the idea it would make much of a net difference.

All I ever did with LN was cryo-pumping in ultra-high vacuum systems. Sure works a charm!

Back then I was an expert at making nothing. My accountant says I still am. (Bomp-BASH! I'll be here all week... Try the Ruben!)

Now for a less serious angle, we should ask Walt Disney and/or Tim Leary how it's workin' out for them.

[Zippy]

CantPlay, ToneMerc, Zippy, I believe you've done what you said you have - but a little more info if you would indulge me. Did you take metal from room temp to LN temp or from heated-up a couple hundred degrees or more to LN cold? Quenching from heat - yes I expect that would make a difference. Cooling from room temp to ultra cold - then returning to room temp, I'm having a hard time buying the idea it would make much of a net difference.

For systems that do NOT experience a phase transformation, Google "cryogenic stress relief".

[playonit]

Now if they were soaked in a nice Single Malt Scotch..... Just maybe....

[Wallbanger]

how could cryo possibly do anything except warp and move stuff around inside a tube assembly thats already built? A tube is not a bearing hub or piston, its an assembly of freakishly dissimilar metals and coatings inside a glass bottle. If it was tested or vetted in any way prior to making it really cold, (as if that level of testing AND rejection exists anymore!) it's very likely different after that process, and its not in any way predictable. No two tubes (or triode halves) are the same anyway. the "golden" ones from the really good factories that no longer exist were just a degree less inconsistent. PSST, super secret: the NOS ones, even the ones with long black plates and little bugle playing tube men on them that were left on the shelf that groove tubes started with by grading were the statistical outliers that no end user manufacturer wanted. they were the dregs of a dying and outmoded industry. They all made gobs of rejects.

tubes all do more or less the same thing, even cheap ones. Cheap ones might be microphonic (like almost all mullard preamp tubes, they were a budget tube oem in kit amps) and might not last as long but it boils down to one thing: you have to learn how to play with your fingers, not pedals and tube changes. I evaluate tubes one at a time, good ones last almost forever, regardless who made them. Cryo is a sales tool like GT telling you an off spec tube is normal and "grading" it.

[Reeltarded]

It doesn't work. I got my amp real hot and threw ice water in there. It doesn't work.