Advantages of PTP wiring?

[Kazooman]

PTP can also be a rat's nest. Here's a gut shot of a 1960's Klempt Echolette tape echo as I received it. Even trying to trace the circuit with schematic in hand is a real challenge. Digging down to replace a leaky cap can require unsoldering many other components. They prided themseleves in enclosing the shieled cable in plastic and in creating wiring harnesses by tying them together with waxed thread. The only way to figure out where leads connect is with a continuity tester and guesswork. Still, the attempted restoration makes for an interesting hobby.

[IMG:639:426]http://i51.tinypic.com/2vm6891.jpg[/img][/img]

[vibratoking]

I don't know where all the unobstantiated and general negativity comes from regarding PCBs. Most of those negative comments are false. PCBs can work VERY well and can last damn near forever. If it fails or doesn't perform properly then it is the fault of the designer not the technology.

[Colossal]

I don't know where all the unobstantiated and general negativity comes from regarding PCBs. Most of those negative comments are false. PCBs can work VERY well and can last damn near forever. If it fails or doesn't perform properly then it is the fault of the designer not the technology.

+1

[Phil_S]

I don't know where all the unobstantiated and general negativity comes from regarding PCBs. Most of those negative comments are false. PCBs can work VERY well and can last damn near forever. If it fails or doesn't perform properly then it is the fault of the designer not the technology.

It is probably based on the myriad of cheaply made, poorly designed PCBs that have made their way into modern guitar amps, some from main line manufacturers. I think we have a clear case of perception is reality.

I don't think anyone here will disagree about it being fairly easy to make a good and reliable PCB. All it takes is a little know-how and a willingness to put in the money to make it a quality product. Heck, you make very good ones in China if you spec them that way (and if you are willing)!

[Structo]

I have nothing bad to say about a well designed Printed Circuit Board or PCB, as us electron heads like to say.
As long as it is designed well and uses quality components.

But when they mass produce these amps at a price point, I'm not too surprised that the actual specs and quality of the PCB one of the first places to cut costs.

Thinner board, holes not plated through, smaller gauge traces, poor masking, heat issues, etc.

And most mass produced amps are made in Asia.
And as such, repairing them can be a challenge due to the poor quality of the PCB.

Perhaps all audio equipment should be done at military standards.
But then who would be able to afford one?

Basically, you get about what you pay for.

[renshen1957]

I don't know where all the unobstantiated and general negativity comes from regarding PCBs. Most of those negative comments are false. PCBs can work VERY well and can last damn near forever. If it fails or doesn't perform properly then it is the fault of the designer not the technology.

Hi,

No bias against PCB by several modern builders, I've mentioned earlier posts and there are others, I haven't seen heard that are either boutique or smaller builders who use PCB's who I respect both their amps reputations and their opinions.

Ken Fischer of Trainwreck fame spoke of some good vintage PCB amps in an interview, Selmer had one that he said would get you a Pete Townsend sound.

Sunn Amps used Dynco PCBs.

In the same interview, Ken Fischer related why he left his Tech position at Ampeg just after Kordon Hull sold his company. He left over the new owners first PCB circuit board design. Ken eyed the circuit warned that the power traces were to close to the audio traces and it would oscillate. His new boss put the PCB into product and it oscillated to beat the band. Ken quit, and road Motorcycles (were he acquired his nickname, Trainwreck, from his riding style).

So this was an issue of the designer.

Soldano uses PCBs and its their design philosophy. I wouldn't recommend any hobbist builder to attempt to build a copy of a Soldano by using PCBs unless they were extremely experienced in PCBs. Peavey, Mesa, Bugera cloned the design of one of Soldano's amps.

Then there are the major manufacturers (you know their names, look up the number) who price point philosophy and POS products earned my opinion.

I've worked on enough never "before touched by a repairman" Fenders Amps in which the copper traces were lifted from heat to form a bias. I've also work on the same amps that had gone under the knife more than once. These same amps have some undersize parts that go up in smoke. This includes the better (by comparison) Rivera Fender era amps than later ones.

Most people who had the Vox AC30CC2 (Custom Classic or Chinese crXp as former owners who had issues) who returned them over issues under warranty might associate the poor QC with the fact it's a PCB

Possibly PCB amps wouldn't have such a bad rap if there was a vintage amp that had been popular and associated with a Guitar Legend rise to fame which didn't have issues.

I can't think of any one of these in particular.

Best regards,

Steve

PS Maybe part of my bias would be all the SS stereos with one channel kaput that I have been asked to fix. My patent reply is for what I would charge you to fix the amp in labor, you could buy a new amp.

[teemuk]

Possibly PCB amps wouldn't have such a bad rap if there was a vintage amp that had been popular and associated with a Guitar Legend rise to fame which didn't have issues.

Like JCM800 series...?

Or pretty much every Mesa/Boogie amp?

[renshen1957]

Possibly PCB amps wouldn't have such a bad rap if there was a vintage amp that had been popular and associated with a Guitar Legend rise to fame which didn't have issues.

Like JCM800 series...?

Or pretty much every Mesa/Boogie amp?

Hi

Call me old but I associate legends such as Hendrix, Clayton, Beck, Page, Gilmour, Blackmore.

Santana played Mesa Boogie but he rose to fame on twin Reverbs on Santana and Abraxas. He also played Marshalls and purchased Gallien Krueger amp #1. To the best of my knowledge there were no Mesas at Woodstock
I associate Country legends and Blues legends too many to list with non PCB amps.

Or in other words Marshall, Fender, Vox fame exists based on artists who achieved legendary status with non-PCB amps.

No disrespect to your favorite legends, feel free to list some

Tony Iommi cut his teeth on Laney amps but went to Marshalls et al when the money rolled (the Orange amp was only used during two videos). I don't know when Laney switched to PCBS but Tony's Super Group Heads were used from 1968 to 1979.

Saul Hudson aka Slash Apetite for Destruction the 800 was used on the clean tones possibly rhythm tracts and a modded Marshall 1959T was the distortion tone. The 1959T were made 1965 to 1973. So it's possible that a model that was discontinued in the same year might have a PCB. I will guess most likely not the case, why would Marshall go to the expense to make a PCB for a model that was discontinued? But the amp may have been a standard 1959 from the early70's according to Glenn Buckley that was similarly modified when the original specified rental amp requested was unavailable. So it's possible for rental amps purchased in the UK to be either. But Slash didn't rise to fame on a 800. Nor did he play a Gibson LP, but a copy.


I could go on but I am late to work.

Best regards

Steve

PS What do Dumbles and Trainwrecks have in common?

[malt]

here Is a nice way to use different construction methods Tone King Amplifier

[rp]

Wow that Tone King is nuts - 3D boards! At first I thought they just hooked the components on the pads and glued w/ solder but then noticed they wrapped the leads through the hole in the pad - awesome stuff. But why all the effort? Are they going for a super compact chassis?

I agree high quality well thought out PCBs are terrific, maybe the best way to go. The nadir for PCBs are the flimsy flexy boards with thin traces, tiny pads, and THE F#CKING SOCKETS ON THE BOARD, the ones w/ through holes in the chassis! That's rock bottom. That's were the bad rep came from.

[malt]

I think the Tong King is about passion and innovation " IN my opinion" not that he is going to invent the wheel. Take a look here lot's of cool stuff https://www.facebook.com/ToneKingAmplif ... tos_stream

[Blackburn]

That's one of the funkiest guitar amps builds I've ever seen! I dig it!

[malt]

yes And loots of cool ideas for us to feed on

[malt]

here is my take on pcb

[malt]

1mm copper glued in, here is the top side. This must bee the S3 board i made, about 5 years ago!