Hi all, this is my first post, so be gentle!
I have decided to build my own amp, but I haven't ever done any electronics before (never done any soldering, never made something from a schematic) so have been reading up and watching loads of youtube guides to try and get myself started.
But despite all this, I still have a bunch of questions (and likely more as I start the build).
Before I start, here is a link to the kit that I will be building: http://www.ampmaker.com/store/SE-5a-5W- ... ifier.html
I'm going for the plexi style head and single 2x12 angled speaker cab.
Here is the head and cab that I think I'll go for: http://www.ampmaker.com/infocentre/thread-41.html
As for speakers, I have just bought two pre-rola Celestion Greenbacks (1969 and 1970) to throw in the cab.
As for tools, so far I have bought some needle nose pliars, wire cutters, wire strippers, and a 3rd arm.
The questions...
1. The kit uses a turret board, but I am confused over the technique of soldering to a turret board, do you lay all the components in first, and then drop a bunch of solder down the turret, or do you do each part bit by bit?
2. What sort of solder should I buy (lead free/non-lead free)? I want to use the best quality stuff that I can.
Any other basic info that I should know before I start?
Thanks in advance for any help that you guys might be able to give, I am about to throw myself into the deepend, and hope that I'll come out with something worthwhile!
First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
Glad your going to build your own amp it can be rewarding but the road to success can take years off of you 
There are many ways to tackle the turret boards you can see that from looking at different build pictures. The length of resistor leads today are getting shorter compared to old stock. So with that said on some Marshall builds I find it necessary to locate long lead NOS resistors that can reach across the turret board. Then I decide if I'm going to wrap the lead around the turret or drop it into the top hole. Then I have to also consider how many other leads or hookup wires are going to that same turret. That is way I like to wrap the lead around the turret and leave the top hole for hookup wires. Also you can use the under board or bottom of the turret for hookup wire too.
I try to load the components on the board first and then come back and solder with Kester lead solder.
Mark
There are many ways to tackle the turret boards you can see that from looking at different build pictures. The length of resistor leads today are getting shorter compared to old stock. So with that said on some Marshall builds I find it necessary to locate long lead NOS resistors that can reach across the turret board. Then I decide if I'm going to wrap the lead around the turret or drop it into the top hole. Then I have to also consider how many other leads or hookup wires are going to that same turret. That is way I like to wrap the lead around the turret and leave the top hole for hookup wires. Also you can use the under board or bottom of the turret for hookup wire too.
I try to load the components on the board first and then come back and solder with Kester lead solder.
Mark
Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
Welcome to the fun!!
Regarding tools, a couple of different size (L, M, S), curved tipped hemostats are an absolute must IMHO.
Have fun,
Dave O.
Regarding tools, a couple of different size (L, M, S), curved tipped hemostats are an absolute must IMHO.
Have fun,
Dave O.
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JazzGuitarGimp
- Posts: 2357
- Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:54 pm
- Location: Northern CA
Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
I'll add that rosin core solder is what we use for electrical / electronics work. Using a solder with rosin in the core frees you up from having to add rosin to the connection before you apply the heat.
Also, and I assume you've watched some youtube videos on soldering, but I'm a bit concerned about your statement "drop a bunch of solder down the turret". There's an old saying in electronics (how do I know it's old, you ask? Because it has been around longer than me and..... drumroll..... I AM OLD!) that goes something like this: "heat the work, not the solder". You can make a proper solder joint, and you can make a cold solder joint. As its name implies, a cold solder joint comes about when you do not use enough heat when making the connection. Soldering heat is controlled in two ways: 1. The actual heat of your iron tip and, 2. The length of time you keep the iron tip on the connection being soldered. There is a careful balancing act between not using enough heat (resulting in a cold solder joints) and using too much heat (resulting in melted components and scorched boards). So, if you haven't already done so, watch some videos on the subject and do some practicing before you start your build.
Best of luck, and please keep the posts coming; we're a close-knit community here, and we like to see how people's builds are coming along.
Also, and I assume you've watched some youtube videos on soldering, but I'm a bit concerned about your statement "drop a bunch of solder down the turret". There's an old saying in electronics (how do I know it's old, you ask? Because it has been around longer than me and..... drumroll..... I AM OLD!) that goes something like this: "heat the work, not the solder". You can make a proper solder joint, and you can make a cold solder joint. As its name implies, a cold solder joint comes about when you do not use enough heat when making the connection. Soldering heat is controlled in two ways: 1. The actual heat of your iron tip and, 2. The length of time you keep the iron tip on the connection being soldered. There is a careful balancing act between not using enough heat (resulting in a cold solder joints) and using too much heat (resulting in melted components and scorched boards). So, if you haven't already done so, watch some videos on the subject and do some practicing before you start your build.
Best of luck, and please keep the posts coming; we're a close-knit community here, and we like to see how people's builds are coming along.
Lou Rossi Designs
Printed Circuit Design & Layout,
and Schematic Capture
Printed Circuit Design & Layout,
and Schematic Capture
Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to co
The assembly instructions are pretty good: http://www.ampmaker.com/se-5a-turret-bo ... 958-0.htmlGibso wrote:I am confused over the technique of soldering to a turret board, do you lay all the components in first, and then drop a bunch of solder down the turret, or do you do each part bit by bit?
You need all the components for a given turret in place before you start to solder. You then need to solder them *to* the turret (not drip some solder into the hole
). Some people fill the whole board with components before soldering, but stuff starts falling out again if I do it, so I go one turret at a time.If you haven't soldered before, it would really help you to make a few dozen joints on scrap components before you get to work on the turret board. This will make all the difference in the world. Ampmaker will sell you a dozen turrets and some resistors for a few £ for practising on - Don't practise on the main board <- my 0.02p.
Lead free reacts better with the lead free tinning (solder coating) on the component leads & turrets (IMHO). Get multi core solder for electronics work.2. What sort of solder should I buy (lead free/non-lead free)? I want to use the best quality stuff that I can.
You will need a decent soldering iron - probably about 40W, ideally temperature controlled.
HTH
Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
I build and repair tube amps. http://amps.monkeymatic.com
Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
Good choice on the ampmaker kit, Barry is a really decent guy and puts together some really nice kits.
As far as soldering goes there is nothing like practice, grab some vero board and cheap components and practice.
Myself, i do my resistors first, then caps, followed by flying leads and then sockets, pots, switches, and trannys.
For soldering techniques try Youtube, here is a good one to start with. And remember, keep your tip CLEAN!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrhg5A1a1mU
As far as soldering goes there is nothing like practice, grab some vero board and cheap components and practice.
Myself, i do my resistors first, then caps, followed by flying leads and then sockets, pots, switches, and trannys.
For soldering techniques try Youtube, here is a good one to start with. And remember, keep your tip CLEAN!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrhg5A1a1mU
Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
I was gonna say that. Everytime you go in wipe it on the sponge. Wash your sponge. Wash your hands after touching lead solder, don't eat and solder.fullwood wrote:keep your tip CLEAN!
You want Kester 44, even though lead should be banned, I can't get the new stuff to work for me.
http://www.all-spec.com/products/KW4460.html
Get a soldering station at least as soon as you can. Learn to solder hot and fast, I just crank mine and work fast. I often throw an alligator clip on parts as a heat sink. Radio Shack has these packages of little copper colored (but not copper
) alligator clips w/o teeth (!) that I find useful. They fit in tight spots. Remember to remove them!You're gonna have to learn to desolder. Pump and wick, get the widest wick. Best to heat sink the part.
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Gibsonman63
- Posts: 1033
- Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 1:59 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
Good magnification is a must for me. I like the optivisor. If you take good pictures as you go with a decent camera set to macro mode, you'll get lots of help fixing things as you go, which should make startup and troubleshooting much less painful.
Lead dress is very important, so take your time and try to route the wiring as close to the layout as possible. Do a search of similar builds and print nice clear color pictures of the wiring. It is helpful to have several sources for the layout for clarity since you are routing wires in three dimensions.
Print extra copies of everything and highlight the layout and schematic as you go. It is important to be able to correlate the schematic to the layout for troublehooting and for final voicing of the amplifier.
As far as the turrets, I like to drop the componants in the top. For wiring leaving the turret board, I like to wrap them around the outside of the turret. It makes replacing componants easier. Others do it differently, but that is my preferance.
Lead dress is very important, so take your time and try to route the wiring as close to the layout as possible. Do a search of similar builds and print nice clear color pictures of the wiring. It is helpful to have several sources for the layout for clarity since you are routing wires in three dimensions.
Print extra copies of everything and highlight the layout and schematic as you go. It is important to be able to correlate the schematic to the layout for troublehooting and for final voicing of the amplifier.
As far as the turrets, I like to drop the componants in the top. For wiring leaving the turret board, I like to wrap them around the outside of the turret. It makes replacing componants easier. Others do it differently, but that is my preferance.
Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
Hey, my first foray was with one of Barry's kits (Ampmaker). I figured for the price, that you could not get a better entry into how deal valve amps.
I remember firing it up for the first test and "Her indoors" standing nearby with a baseball bat, waiting to whack me in case I started smoldering.
Everyone has made good points above.
Don't Barry's kits come with solder anyway?
Stay away from healthy modern solder. ROHS or whatever, you need the real bad kind and one which sets as quickly as possible.
Kester is good, but may be tricky to source outside of the USA.
I have some called "Future" 63/37 from Warton Metals in the UK.
My Grandfather taught me to "tin" both parts to be connected before soldering. Then wrap / connect them. Then heat the joint on one side while holding the solder on the other side and let it flow into a good shiny joint. (Dull grey is bad.) From watching old Tektronix tutorials I picked up a naughty tip which my Grandfather would have beaten me for: just as you touch the iron to the joint quickly add just a small amount of solder to help the heat conductivity between the iron tip and the joint in question.
What else? Try to get as fine cutters and pliers as possible.
Oh, and build yourself a light-bulb current limiter straight away.
Last time I was in London I needed to fix an unknown amp and went to the local white goods shop and declared that I need to rig up a light-bulb current limiter. I was sure that I would get arrested or at least laughed at. But it put a twinkle in the owner's eye. He went out back and gave all the parts including the now EU condemned bulb.
Hope this is of some help. There is a lot to take on board at first.
Best, tony
I remember firing it up for the first test and "Her indoors" standing nearby with a baseball bat, waiting to whack me in case I started smoldering.
Everyone has made good points above.
Don't Barry's kits come with solder anyway?
Stay away from healthy modern solder. ROHS or whatever, you need the real bad kind and one which sets as quickly as possible.
Kester is good, but may be tricky to source outside of the USA.
I have some called "Future" 63/37 from Warton Metals in the UK.
My Grandfather taught me to "tin" both parts to be connected before soldering. Then wrap / connect them. Then heat the joint on one side while holding the solder on the other side and let it flow into a good shiny joint. (Dull grey is bad.) From watching old Tektronix tutorials I picked up a naughty tip which my Grandfather would have beaten me for: just as you touch the iron to the joint quickly add just a small amount of solder to help the heat conductivity between the iron tip and the joint in question.
What else? Try to get as fine cutters and pliers as possible.
Oh, and build yourself a light-bulb current limiter straight away.
Last time I was in London I needed to fix an unknown amp and went to the local white goods shop and declared that I need to rig up a light-bulb current limiter. I was sure that I would get arrested or at least laughed at. But it put a twinkle in the owner's eye. He went out back and gave all the parts including the now EU condemned bulb.
Hope this is of some help. There is a lot to take on board at first.
Best, tony
Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
Whoops, double post! Sorry!
Last edited by Gibso on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
Wow, Thank you all so much for your detailed and incredibly helpful responses. This forum is wonderful, and I will continually update this thread with pics and news over the next couple of weeks as I receive and build the amp.
A couple of early questions, I was thinking of going for this soldering iron, do you guys think that it is any good? Any other recommendations are very welcome! http://www.maplin.co.uk/60w-lcd-display ... ion-218050
Also, I am looking for somewhere to get some decent solder, as maplin don't stock rosin core or non-lead-free!
So far I have got the following tools (see picture), and tried to put together this small pcb trial kit that I bought cheap from maplins to just have a go at soldering on.
So far I am finding that the soldering iron doesn't seem to want to heat the components themselves, but instead only melts solder when it is applied directly to it, and it keeps turing into tiny little solder balls!
Is this because of my technique, that the soldering iron is old (it is borrowed and doesn't look particularly healthy!), or both?!
Anywho here are the pics. I am off to buy some more tools tomorrow and will keep you all updated. Once again, what a great forum!
A couple of early questions, I was thinking of going for this soldering iron, do you guys think that it is any good? Any other recommendations are very welcome! http://www.maplin.co.uk/60w-lcd-display ... ion-218050
Also, I am looking for somewhere to get some decent solder, as maplin don't stock rosin core or non-lead-free!
So far I have got the following tools (see picture), and tried to put together this small pcb trial kit that I bought cheap from maplins to just have a go at soldering on.
So far I am finding that the soldering iron doesn't seem to want to heat the components themselves, but instead only melts solder when it is applied directly to it, and it keeps turing into tiny little solder balls!
Is this because of my technique, that the soldering iron is old (it is borrowed and doesn't look particularly healthy!), or both?!
Anywho here are the pics. I am off to buy some more tools tomorrow and will keep you all updated. Once again, what a great forum!
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Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
Didn't realize you were in UK! Add your location to your profile. Helps folks make suggestions about where to buy stuff.
Looks like you're putting too much solder on that heart-shaped board. The solder should be concave around the leg of the component, not round like a ball.
Keep Calm And Carry On
Looks like you're putting too much solder on that heart-shaped board. The solder should be concave around the leg of the component, not round like a ball.
Keep Calm And Carry On
I build and repair tube amps. http://amps.monkeymatic.com
Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
PC boards are a different game than soldering on eyelet and turret boards or switch terminals that can withstand a bit more heat.Gibso wrote:Wow, Thank you all so much for your detailed and incredibly helpful responses. This forum is wonderful, and I will continually update this thread with pics and news over the next couple of weeks as I receive and build the amp.
A couple of early questions, I was thinking of going for this soldering iron, do you guys think that it is any good? Any other recommendations are very welcome! http://www.maplin.co.uk/60w-lcd-display ... ion-218050
Also, I am looking for somewhere to get some decent solder, as maplin don't stock rosin core or non-lead-free!
So far I have got the following tools (see picture), and tried to put together this small pcb trial kit that I bought cheap from maplins to just have a go at soldering on.
So far I am finding that the soldering iron doesn't seem to want to heat the components themselves, but instead only melts solder when it is applied directly to it, and it keeps turing into tiny little solder balls!
Is this because of my technique, that the soldering iron is old (it is borrowed and doesn't look particularly healthy!), or both?!
Anywho here are the pics. I am off to buy some more tools tomorrow and will keep you all updated. Once again, what a great forum!
The printed traces will lift off the board before long if you either use too much heat or leave it in contact for very long.
The key to getting decent work done on a PCB is to get in, make the joint and get off before cooking the board.
There's not much mass there to absorb heat on the solder pad.
It should only take a second to fuse the solder, component lead and trace pad.
If the solder doesn't flow immediately and bond there may be contamination.
For small PCB work I have a 25W pencil type with a narrow tip, there's smaller ones for very fine work.
Good solder is a must for electronic work, environmental concerns be damned.
Don't be breathing fumes and use good ventilation.
Have you found any proper 60/40 multi-core or is that outlawed in your area ?
I have had mixed results with modern enviro-friendly types of solder such as so called "high strength", lead-free and silver solder.
rd
Re: First Build, 2 really basic questions (likely more to come!)
you can try to get some solder from Rs http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solders/0554951/ or http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solders/7568904/
they have tons of tools, parts etc...
they have tons of tools, parts etc...
I'll tell you all my secrets, but I lie about my past.