advice on pulling the trigger on tubes

[Wiktor D]

Hi guys,
I've been a bit of a lurker here for a bit and have benefited from the massive amount of knowledge here but I need some serious TAG advice. A recent craigslist buy of nos and used pre-amp tubes (aka rca blackplate 12ax7 and telefunken 12_7 tubes) has led me to a box of Western-Union red base power tubes including 5881s (10) and 6v6 (10) and an assortment of preamp tubes in thier original boxes with yellow print and the pre-amp tubes are an array of x, t, and u in the 12 family. The guy who has them is a HAM guy who knows somewhat what he has when I was buying the pre-amp tubes and showed me the 'money box' and wanted me to make an offer on the items I mentioned above. I hope this isnt too far off in the technical discussion, if it is I apologize and you can delete it. What I need is advice on whether or not the lot is worth offering a price on without breaking the bank.
Regards,
Vic

[Cliff Schecht]

Something you will need to get good at when shopping for tubes is walking away. It's especially hard to do when you first start buying NOS because you have nothing and want everything, but you will get over this as you accrue enough tubes to cover you and an entire band for life. It only took me a few years to get to that point.

I've been to many a hamfest where the guy selling his stuff knows what he has and what it's worth. These guys are at every hamfest and have to whip out the list every time you bring up a tube. I don't like dealing with this type so much although usually if you buy a few hundred dollars worth of tubes you can start getting some great deals. The guys I like are the ones who like to cut deals and move tubes. They know their prices and test everything. A guy a met in Dallas last summer had some scary good prices on NOS and gently used everything. I stocked up on stuff I was low on and picked out the cool oddballs (an RCA labelled Mullard AX7 was my favorite snag).

My other favorite tube guys are the people who are just selling a few tubes they had laying around. These guys will give you some scary deals, and the less they know about what they have the better. These guys just want to get rid of what they have and usually don't want to haggle. Make them an "insulting" offer, they don't know any better than to take it. Keep some small bills on you, even if they are apprehensive at first they usually buckle eventually.

The type of guy you are dealing with here is hit or miss IME. I've been in similar situations where I walked away with 1000's of tubes for free and others where I walked away not interested in anything. Don't break the bank just to get your hands on some cool tubes. They will come around again and even if not, the new manufacture stuff is perfectly fine for our low fidelity purposes. Make him an offer that you can afford and you know won't insult him. Even if he says no at first, he'll maybe give you a call back later (a good bud of mine scored a MINT 1977 Gibson RD Artist for cheap today doing this!). Also don't feel like you need to buy all of his tubes now, buy just what you need for now and let him enjoy the money you've given him. He might make you an offer later that you can't refuse, especially if the tubes aren't useful to him.



Also keep in mind that if you were to sell your tubes to an online retailer (the lowest hassle way to sell tubes), expect about 10% of what the actual value is. Even on ebay, go and look at what these tubes are actually selling for (as opposed to what some A**holes like to ask, ignore 0 bid and BIN items). I hate selling tubes in any manner now so I just buy what I know I will use or be able to trade for. The rest is useless to me (unless it's pre WW2!!).

FWIW I had to walk away from a relatively minty 1957 Fender Deluxe a few days ago because the old man that owned it had it valued at about $4000. I told him that his amp in great condition is worth $2500 and I didn't even bother with an offer, I didn't want to insult him or belittle his prized possession. Since he is a friend of my buddies family I might have my buddy make him a lowball offer and see if he'll budge. This amp has been in a closet for 20+ years and is all original I believe. Plus it would be nice to have a real 5E3 .

[rdjones]

Hi guys,
I've been a bit of a lurker here for a bit and have benefited from the massive amount of knowledge here but I need some serious TAG advice. A recent craigslist buy of nos and used pre-amp tubes (aka rca blackplate 12ax7 and telefunken 12_7 tubes) has led me to a box of Western-Union red base power tubes including 5881s (10) and 6v6 (10) and an assortment of preamp tubes in thier original boxes with yellow print and the pre-amp tubes are an array of x, t, and u in the 12 family. The guy who has them is a HAM guy who knows somewhat what he has when I was buying the pre-amp tubes and showed me the 'money box' and wanted me to make an offer on the items I mentioned above. I hope this isnt too far off in the technical discussion, if it is I apologize and you can delete it. What I need is advice on whether or not the lot is worth offering a price on without breaking the bank.
Regards,
Vic

I shop on eBay for NOS and good used tubes.
I compare what decent quality new production tubes sell for as a guide.
I only pay a premium over that for NOS tubes I really want or have a particular need for such as being period correct for something I'm working on.
I prefer NOS for power tubes and rectifiers but will buy "good used" (tested) preamp tubes from a few trusted sellers.

Do you or the seller have a tube tester ?
Any guarantees ?
Being in a box might not mean the tube is "NIB" because repair shops may have just put a pulled tube in the replacement tube's box.

It's up to you to determine if the tubes will be useful to you and if so, what value they hold as opposed to other sources.

rd

[Cantplay]

My rule in buying stuff is never make the initial offer.

Let him offer them to you at a price. Otherwise they are not really for sale, he is just collecting offers to boost his ego on what his collection is worth.

John

[selloutrr]

Keep a rough estimate of the tube values in your mind or on a card. This way you will be able to at least estimate a ball park price before you start talking $. Next if ever possible bring a tube tester and know what you are buying. More times then not used or pulled tubes were pulled for a reason. Not just cause they looked cool on the shelf . I've thrown away hundreds if not thousands over the years on nos garage sale eBay craigslist lucky finds only to discover the tubes test bad or have faults that prevent them from being good in an audio circuit.

More times them not when buying in bulk the price per tube can become 1/2 to a 1/3 if you buy them all. That "if you buy the entire lot" thinking shows motivation to sell. I'd start out offering $100 cash and see where the conversation leads. If he comes back with high $. Break out the tester and see if his tubes are worth the $. Some NOS tubes in matched pairs, quads, sixtets, octets can be worth thousands with the correct test results.

[gary sanders]

My rule in buying stuff is never make the initial offer.

Let him offer them to you at a price. Otherwise they are not really for sale, he is just collecting offers to boost his ego on what his collection is worth.

John

I hear ya! That goes for any swap meet or guitar or amp show!

[Wiktor D]

Thanks for the advice guys! It's easy to become overly excited the first time you walk into a basement filled with tubes (literally!) We both own tube testers and I'm letting him sit on them for at least a few weeks before I consider getting back in touch with him. I guess I better work on my poker face! Thanks for bringing me back to earth.

Vic

[Structo]

The trend I see more and more is for sellers that try to sell pulls as NOS.

Most of you old timers will already know all this but some newbies may find some use for it.

Many times you can't really tell if it is a NOS or not because many tubes have the lettering that is fragile and will rub off if you look at them.

I was told at one point that I shouldn't buy any NOS tube that doesn't come in an original box, I don't know how true that is because it wasn't uncommon for tubes to come in bulk lots in a flat carrier.

A few years back guys said the JAN tubes didn't sound all that good.
Now if you can find one they command a pretty high price.

There is a lot to learn about vintage tubes and what brands sound like what and what tubes work best in our guitar amps.

Also what kind and type tube tester the seller uses is also important because not all testers measure the same thing.
And many don't measure the tube at a real world plate voltage.

So to me it's becoming more an more a crap shoot.

I did buy a couple GE short plates from somebody on ebay but I only paid something like $20 each for them.
They listed the transconductance for each triode which doesn't mean all that much to me.

So far the value of NOS or used vintage tubes is kind of lost on me because I just don't hear the sonic gains that much but I suppose if the tube lasted for 20 years it would be a good thing.

[Lynxtrap]

What I've always wondered is, how many NOS tubes can there be out there?
I mean, the supply can't be endless... There has been a market for them for, what, 20 years?

[Structo]

I always imagine some old guy that has a garage full of tubes and I'll go over and he says, take the lot of them, get'em outta here!
For free........ well I can dream.

I read this one article about a guy that was an old tube audiophile.
He had a two car garage stacked to the rafters with shelves of audio tubes.
Many he didn't even use.
He just liked to collect them.

Some people will collect anything. And sure, it preserves a certain supply of them but man, what a waste.

Also, I would think there are little caches all over the place like old government warehouses and such where they are just forgotten about because I believe the military used them in some equipment up until the late 1980's.

But usually what you will find and I see it on ebay, is a tube caddy or a box of tubes from a TV repair shop and they will be a bunch of odd ball tubes not suited for guitar amps. Maybe a rectifier or two you can use but no 12ax7's or 6L6 tubes at all.

[selloutrr]

It's possible I had a similar thing happen with fishing gear.

I got paired up with a pen pal at a nursing home in middle school. I wrote him a letter about a fishing trip I went on. A month or so later he contacted my parents and showed up with a truck full of vintage fly fishing equipment. Bamboo fly rods, the works. I still use most of it Just saying it can happen. Who ever lives next to my wife when I die is going to have a shit load of amps and guitars

[passfan]

Learn what equipment came with what brand of tube. I regularly get Mullards and GE's and RCA's out of old tube equipment. I recognize what to look for. Preamp tubes are usually in great condition. Rectifiers and output tubes don't fare quite as well. Transformers last and a lot of stuff used bumble bee and black beauty caps. You can save some money once you know what to look for.

[rdjones]

The trend I see more and more is for sellers that try to sell pulls as NOS.

Most of you old timers will already know all this but some newbies may find some use for it.

Many times you can't really tell if it is a NOS or not because many tubes have the lettering that is fragile and will rub off if you look at them.

I was told at one point that I shouldn't buy any NOS tube that doesn't come in an original box, I don't know how true that is because it wasn't uncommon for tubes to come in bulk lots in a flat carrier.

Here's a listing I found the other day:
http://cgi.ebay.com/270889680157
It was listed as a "6L6GC" and I immediately called him on it.
The seller quickly corrected the listing.
But it's still a case of "untested AS-IS" and no returns, junk seller.
Clearly a pulled tube put back into the new tube's box.

Also what kind and type tube tester the seller uses is also important because not all testers measure the same thing.
And many don't measure the tube at a real world plate voltage.

So to me it's becoming more an more a crap shoot.

I did buy a couple GE short plates from somebody on ebay but I only paid something like $20 each for them.
They listed the transconductance for each triode which doesn't mean all that much to me.

The sellers I most patronize always list some kind of test results and plenty of clear closeup pics.
Yes, test numbers from some random tester will not rule out microphonics or gain issues but it can be reassuring that the tube(s) will have some life.

So far the value of NOS or used vintage tubes is kind of lost on me because I just don't hear the sonic gains that much but I suppose if the tube lasted for 20 years it would be a good thing.

Even an RCA 7025 that's near the end of it's long life will sound nicer than the majority of what's being made now, and all that's coming out of China.

reddog Steve

[Structo]

Yes you have to shop carefully.
Good idea to educate yourself about whatever you are going to shop for.

Tubes are a vast topic and to remember all the brands and date codes, etc. is quite the challenge.

I don't know of anyway to tell a NOS tube apart from a pull.
If the pull is clean looking with no damage to the lettering, it could be worn out for all you know.

That being said, a friend gave me a box of Baldwin 12AX7's that were pulls from organs.
I believe them to be Raytheon's and Sylvania's.
There were more 12AU7's than the X's but I got about 15 12AX7's that I could use and they seemed strong.

[brentm]

That being said, a friend gave me a box of Baldwin 12AX7's that were pulls from organs.
I believe them to be Raytheon's and Sylvania's.
There were more 12AU7's than the X's but I got about 15 12AX7's that I could use and they seemed strong.

Did you happen to get any with the brown silkscreen and the larger RCA-style octogon 12ax7 logo? I really dig those...