Capacitors - why Orange drop and not Fender blue

[LPSGME]

Can someone explain the tonal differences between an amp build using Orange Drop compared to Fender Blue caps?

When I read about how people perceive Orange Drops I hear words like harsh, bright, solid state sounding; whereas Fender Blue caps are generally described as being smoother etc.

Is the Dumble sound only or best achievable using Orange caps - or are they used only because HAD used them?

What about his earliest amps? Were any just modded Fenders (possibly with Blue caps) and, if so, did they sound better or the same?

[j-po]

I'm building one with cheap wima MKS4 metallized polyester caps.

[erwin_ve]

The OD's have different types. The most OD caps used in builds here are the 6PS and 225P series. They sound different from the 715 en 716 series.
If you use the search option you can find many examples of builders using other caps.

[LPSGME]

The OD's have different types. The most OD caps used in builds here are the 6PS and 225P series. They sound different from the 715 en 716 series.
If you use the search option you can find many examples of builders using other caps.

Yes I've come across posts about the different Orange caps. But haven't see much said about the difference between any of them and vintage Fender blue caps? Is that covered as well? Guess I'll have to look.

BTW I found a very positive comment
http://blog.monkbam.com/2008/10/17/coup ... ntagicity/

from someone who said they used these 'Jupiter' caps in place of Fender blues and that they sounded very similar.
http://www.jupitercondenser.com/index.p ... &Itemid=61

[jelle]

One hint:
Look at the composition of the caps. The Fender blue ones, often referred to as 'blue molded caps' after what is written on the caps and not to be confused with the Blue Paktrons of the silverface amps, are both paper polyester types. The OD 715/716 is a polyethylene cap.

Good luck!

[M Fowler]

Sozo is offering the new blue molded caps now and maybe that's what a person needs for Fender type circuits.

Caps are subjective so use whatever caps you think fit the build, budget or tone your seeking.

Mark

[Bob-I]

I believe the main reason for using 6PS ODs as well as the RN65s on Rp is that these are known factors. Dumble experimented a ton with components and there's no reason we can't as well. I've experimented and decided that I like the Xicon MPP caps. Go ahead and experiment, and please report your finding back, inquiring minds want to know.

[Structo]

The OD 715/716 is a polyethylene cap.

Correction, the 715/716 series are polypropylene caps.

The 715 is a pressed cap while the 716 is a round polypropylene cap.

The 225, 418, PS, 425-428, 192, 470P, 460M-465M are all polyester.

http://www.sbelectronics.com/sbelectron ... specs.html

[jelle]

The OD 715/716 is a polyethylene cap.

Correction, the 715/716 series are polypropylene caps.

The 715 is a pressed cap while the 716 is a round polypropylene cap.

The 225, 418, PS, 425-428, 192, 470P, 460M-465M are all polyester.

http://www.sbelectronics.com/sbelectron ... specs.html

I stand corrected.

[Structo]

No problem Jelle, I didn't know crap about orange drops until I started working on D clones.
I didn't realize how many different orange drops there were.
I knew of course there were different voltage ratings but the amount of different model numbers and types was overwhelming the first time I went to order some.

[M Fowler]

I knew that Sprague ODs were in old B&W tv sets so that what I used.

Now days we have a whole bunch of different caps to play with.

[talbany]

Early on I wasted a ton of time trying all sorts of caps (NOS included) in this and other style amps including the Blue Bullets..They were kind of cool...To my ears they lacked a bit of that big open glassy 3D mid range the OD's had..Especially evident in the clean channel..But they were smooth and sweet sounding...
Just keep in mind a large part of the D-Tone is derived from that big open mid range you can stick your head in (especially in OD)..Stray to far off the reservation in that department and lose some of that D charm...If your not into that.... Try away...
I ran across a handful of OS Mullard mustard caps for grins I tried them in a BM 100w build not long ago and is a frickin Killer!!!... I wish they still made those caps damn!!


TonyVVT

[greiswig]

For what it's worth, I tried some Jupiter caps in my D'lite build at one point. I ended up going back to the 6PS Orange Drops. The Jupiters seemed to take some of the bite out of the tone, but not in a good way.

[j-po]

You guys do realize Leo Fender just used what he had cheaply available at the time. I don't think he cared if the caps were blue or orange. Maybe better to use your time with actual circuit changes...

[thyx]

The OD 715/716 is a polyethylene cap.

Correction, the 715/716 series are polypropylene caps.

The 715 is a pressed cap while the 716 is a round polypropylene cap.

The 225, 418, PS, 425-428, 192, 470P, 460M-465M are all polyester.

http://www.sbelectronics.com/sbelectron ... specs.html

Hmmm. I believe it's the 716 that is the pressed cap, and has copper leads...the two things that make it different from the 715.

The dielectric is only one issue...the construction technique is very important as well. Part of the "problem" with modern caps is that they are largely constructed in sections and are flat, or "pressed". These two things make them sound different. The 225 series is also pressed...which is why it won't sound quite as "vintage" as an unpressed 418. The 715 sounding a bit less sterile than the 716 for the same reason (though still nowhere near vintage). The length to width dimensions also play a part in the way a cap sounds, and the blue molded caps have a higher length to width ratio than most modern caps, as well as not being pressed or constructed in sections. To my ear, the blue molded caps sound more resonant and somewhat damped...very musical. The PS series seems to me to be the most neutral and even in frequency response, somewhere between the 715 and the blue molded...probably why Dumble used them. The unpressed 418 is very close...virtually the same. Old Black Cat caps sound almost dead-on for the Blue Molded caps...I use them when I can't get the blue moded ones for vintage repairs.

Long story short, caps sound different. But there is no "best" cap as it depends on what you're trying to do. Dumble amps attempt to replicate the original tone as purely as possible...at least until you hit the overdrive stages (if it's an ODS). The Fender blue molded caps impart a warmth and musicality to the tone...sort of like icing on the cake. Both sound good...though not a lot like each other. Dumbe may have "borrowed" circuits from both Fender and Ampeg, but he had his own direction he was going with his stuff.