Getting that Dumble or D Clone Tone?

[Structo]

I have been listening to some clips of the Two Rock Classic III.

The tone of that thing and my D'Lite 44 (2x6L6) are miles apart.

I really like what I hear from the TR but I'm unable to afford one for sure.

What in the world could be the difference between that and my D'Lite that I have changed just about everything on?

Surely with the right tone stack, bypass and coupling caps I should be able to get close but I never seem to be able to get it there.

Any insight on what it would take?

It seems no matter what change I make the amp just always sounds like a regular high gain amp, not that honky, mid tone D tone.

I have all the changes that are on this layout, most of which Scott recommended.

[scotto]

This may sound like a silly suggestion, but it makes a big difference to my ears. On a dual humbucker guitar, try picking just south of the neck pickup. On my amp, the closer I pick to the neck pickup, the more Dumbly it sounds. If i pick close to the bridge pickup, it sounds more typical of non D style amps. Not sure if this is typical or specific to my amp. If you have already tried this then I don't know what else to suggest.

[roknroll]

This may sound like a silly suggestion, but it makes a big difference to my ears. On a dual humbucker guitar, try picking just south of the neck pickup. On my amp, the closer I pick to the neck pickup, the more Dumbly it sounds. If i pick close to the bridge pickup, it sounds more typical of non D style amps. Not sure if this is typical or specific to my amp. If you have already tried this then I don't know what else to suggest.

I find the same thing with regards to the picking area near the neck pu as well as every time I build a ODS type amp it sounds good but not like what I hear elsewhere. I'm at the point over being overtweaked.

[dave g]

Honestly, I think your OD input trimmer may be set too high. If you follow the schematics on this site, you should get very close to the sound with just a few tweaks to taste.

The 'honk' comes in large part from the asymmetrical clipping of the Dumble OD section. V2a should compress a little, but not clip. V2b does the clipping. If the OD input trimmer is set too high, V2a will clip, and the more symmetrical the clipping, the more cancellation of even order harmonics occurs.

[Structo]

Thanks, I have toyed with the trimmer although I have never measured what it's set at.

I generally keep it below 10 O'clock.

Currently I think I have it around 9 looking from the rear of the amp.

[Normster]

Tom, got your PM and also listened to Tag's Two Rock clips. No doubt about it, those are some killer sounding amps! As for how to get your amp to sound like those, start with a buffered loop and a good reverb/delay unit. The loop with delay in particular will do a lot to smooth out the tone. That was my observation with the Emi Pro I played as well. With the reverb turned up, the amp sounded very good, but with reverb off it sounded pretty pedestrian.

Also, as I mentioned in the PM, post some clips of the tone you're getting with your current setup. Now that I know what you're going for, I (and others here) might be able to steer you in the right direction.

[greiswig]

Thanks, I have toyed with the trimmer although I have never measured what it's set at.

I generally keep it below 10 O'clock.

Currently I think I have it around 9 looking from the rear of the amp.

If I read that right, it sounds like it is really high. Mine ends up being around 10-11 o'clock looking from the front of the amp, which corresponds to between 25k and 33k from ground. Measure it and see where it's at.

Between this setting and the input volume control, it can have a pretty substantial impact on the tone and response. If anything, I tend to err on the low side with the trimmer, but I like to be able to dial in a "clean with just a little hair" tone on overdrive.

BTW, you're welcome to come for a visit and hear a cab with a Celestion 1265 and a Scumback 10" in it, the latter of which could be disconnected so you could hear the Celestion by itself.

[lbradshaw]

I think this is part of the problem I am having with my current test build. I think I was trying to turn the OD trimmer up way too high. It's the whole, if the knob goes to 11, why would I want to set it on 3? It was getting the better of me.

BTW, you're welcome to come for a visit and hear a cab with a Celestion 1265 and a Scumback 10" in it, the latter of which could be disconnected so you could hear the Celestion by itself.

Hey, yet another guy from Oregon. I just noticed today that Structo was from here as well. The big question is: Are you guys Beaver or Duck fans?

[hbamp]

Look at this handdrawn schematic maybe you find some TR vibe.

[roknroll]

Look at this handdrawn schematic maybe you find some TR vibe.

Apples and oranges. That particular Two rock is a 100k amp.
Regards

[butwhatif]

Thanks, I have toyed with the trimmer although I have never measured what it's set at.

I generally keep it below 10 O'clock.

Currently I think I have it around 9 looking from the rear of the amp.

Try putting a 100k resistor in series before the .02 PI input cap.

[Funkalicousgroove]

First off, Clips won't tell you ANYTHING.

The Type III has 2 GZ34 rectifiers, which will add a pretty significant amount of Sag. The Newer Two-Rock amps that have the Cut control are running the presence full blast (390r is bypassed with 1uf) and then have a vox style cut control (.0047/250K pot).

So you can try that, but if it were me, I'd change your Iron, and add a choke.

FWIW, the Guitar solo on Michael Jackson's "Beat-IT" is Eddie Van Halen playing a Dumble, doesn't sound a thing like a Dumble to me Sure sounds like EVH though!

[Structo]

Thanks, I have toyed with the trimmer although I have never measured what it's set at.

I generally keep it below 10 O'clock.

Currently I think I have it around 9 looking from the rear of the amp.

If I read that right, it sounds like it is really high. Mine ends up being around 10-11 o'clock looking from the front of the amp, which corresponds to between 25k and 33k from ground. Measure it and see where it's at.

Between this setting and the input volume control, it can have a pretty substantial impact on the tone and response. If anything, I tend to err on the low side with the trimmer, but I like to be able to dial in a "clean with just a little hair" tone on overdrive.

BTW, you're welcome to come for a visit and hear a cab with a Celestion 1265 and a Scumback 10" in it, the latter of which could be disconnected so you could hear the Celestion by itself.

When I work on the amp and adust the trimmer I am looking at it from the rear panel guts up of course.

The trimmer has a stop at around 7:00 and I have mine set at between 9:00 and 10:00. I'll have to measure it.

Yeah we have to get together to compare.

I bought a choke a while back but haven't put it in yet.

I also replaced the OT with the Prosonic OT from Angela. It's more than twice what I had in it. Thing must weigh 5 lbs.
I probably also need to adjust some preamp voltages but I wanted to wait until I put the choke in.

Thanks for the tips, I know I'll always sound like me through this amp just wondering because when I hear clips they all sound more Dumbly than mine.

I realize that the Dumbleator can play a big part in the tone as well as speakers.

Thanks again for all the tips.

[Structo]

Thanks, I have toyed with the trimmer although I have never measured what it's set at.

I generally keep it below 10 O'clock.

Currently I think I have it around 9 looking from the rear of the amp.

Try putting a 100k resistor in series before the .02 PI input cap.

What does that mod do for the tone?

[Structo]

greiswig,

Which leg of the trimmer to ground do you measure the resistance?

I take it this can be measured while it's in circuit?