Can a brother get some help with Halle

[sonofmickel]

The tone is just not what I expected so far. It sounds kinda thin and doesn't have any air around the notes on clean. The gain channel has A LOT of gain on tap, just not the most musical sounding to me, kinda cold. I have it wired stock from the Weber schematic except for a Dual Pot Master Volume lifted from the Java.

Has anyone swapped a few values here or there to really open this amp up? I am playing it through a Fender Tone Master 2x12 loaded with V30s, I don't really care for the V30s either.

I have successfully built a Weber 6A20HP with two alnico 20 watt 10" speakers, and I believe that it sounds quite good in fact, maybe even excellent.

Please let me know if there are any good mods for the Halle! I want to like it.

[Bob-I]

It might help to see the schem and layouts.

https://taweber.powweb.com/store/halle_schem.jpg
https://taweber.powweb.com/store/halle_layout.jpg

IMHO Weber kits like this one are a good jumping off place, but not all that as designed. I'd look at the ODS-101 and ODS-102 schematics, and the D-Lite or Brandon layouts. Get the right components, carbon comp resistors, RN65D for plate loads, PS6 and ceramic caps and build it up from there,

[heisthl]

Get the right components, carbon comp resistors, RN65D for plate loads, PS6 and ceramic caps and build it up from there,

Where on earth are you using a carbon comp in a Dclone? I think you meant carbon film.

[Bob-I]

Get the right components, carbon comp resistors, RN65D for plate loads, PS6 and ceramic caps and build it up from there,

Where on earth are you using a carbon comp in a Dclone? I think you meant carbon film.

Brain fart. you're right carbon film on everything but V1 and V2 plate loads.

[heisthl]

not exactly set in stone but many use metal films (not VD) on Rks, PI plates and dropping string, with all carbon comps in the signal path.

[Bob-I]

Go here, and check out the layout on the D-Lite.

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=1654

Some of the problems I see in the Halle are ...

1) Too much filtering on the screens. There are 2 100uF caps in series making this 50uF total. I'd reduce that to 2-47uFs in series. Too much screen filtering makes for a stiff amp.

2) PI couplers are too large. C1 and C2 are .1uF. I like .022uF on a dumble style.

3) Get rid of that master volume crap. It's not needed.

4) There's no Preamp boost (PAB). This is one of the best features of the dumble.

5) Rp, Rk and Ck values are all wrong. Use the D-Lite values and get rid of the pot on V1a Ck

6) The values on V2 are all wrong. Use the D-lite

7) PI values are all wrong. D-lite

The layout is all wrong. These amps are very layout dependant. I made the mistake of drawing up my own layouts at first, then realized that Dumble was right about the sensitivity of the layout. Use the D-Lite and watch the lead dress, follow the Dumble pics even when you think it's wrong!! Make up your own eyelet boards (or PM me again if you can't do it yourself, happy to help)

Good luck on the project.

[CaseyJones]

I don't know about the tone stack on the overdrive section, either. IMHO it's not necessary. Voice the sucker so it sounds good, eliminate a couple knobs, good to go! It's kinda anti-PAB x2.

[xk49w]

Too much screen filtering makes for a stiff amp.

Interesting. What does that mean "too stiff"? What is the effect on the sound, the response?

I am coming at this from old school EE (nearing retirement) and getting back to tube roots. Also, I don't actually play guitar, but I digress.

I have been toying with the idea of (and collecting parts for) a 50W ODS but using a regulated screen supply, using an OC3. This would be around 425V on the plates and maybe 300-325 on the screen. Would this regulated screen be not a good thing? OTOH, the OC3 regulates relative to the plate voltage. If there is sag in the plate supply then the screen sags as well, unless it is mightily filtered. But then, maybe this is what you were referring to in your original reply.

[Bob-I]

I don't know about the tone stack on the overdrive section, either. IMHO it's not necessary. Voice the sucker so it sounds good, eliminate a couple knobs, good to go! It's kinda anti-PAB x2.

I disagree. I like the HRM tone, it's far smoother than a non-hrm. I disagree with Weber putting them on the front panel though.

[drz400]

Get the right components, carbon comp resistors, RN65D for plate loads, PS6 and ceramic caps and build it up from there,

Where on earth are you using a carbon comp in a Dclone? I think you meant carbon film.

Brain fart. you're right carbon film on everything but V1 and V2 plate loads.

I saw a 90's ODS with MF everywhere
Some Metal Oxide on cathodes, 2 carbon films, not one visible RN65
Mix of Mouser and CTS pots
I'm starting to think he uses what he has around and then tweaks to taste.
Still had the station wagon wood laminate Board you cant find that stuff anywhere these days, any sources?

[Bob-I]

I saw a 90's ODS with MF everywhere
Some Metal Oxide on cathodes, 2 carbon films, not one visible RN65
Mix of Mouser and CTS pots

I must've seen that one too. I tried it... ripped out the MF signal resistors after 10 minutes of playing. It sounded like a Big Muff into a Gorilla

I'm starting to think he uses what he has around and then tweaks to taste.

Starting??

Still had the station wagon wood laminate Board you cant find that stuff anywhere these days, any sources?

I don't care about the appearance of the amps, I just want 'em to sound good. I'll use whatever board is easy to drill and holds up well. My main gigging amp has p-touch labels on a blank chassis. No one cares.

I've seen Santana 3 times playing with a Dumble and I've never seen the amp. He keeps a clean stage with no visable amps.

[CaseyJones]

I don't know about the tone stack on the overdrive section, either. IMHO it's not necessary. Voice the sucker so it sounds good, eliminate a couple knobs, good to go! It's kinda anti-PAB x2.

I disagree. I like the HRM tone, it's far smoother than a non-hrm. I disagree with Weber putting them on the front panel though.

I like a fair bit o' grit. Too smooth offends my (lack of!) sensibilities.

I'm starting to think he uses what he has around and then tweaks to taste. Still had the station wagon wood laminate Board you cant find that stuff anywhere these days, any sources?

You mean Formica? Shucks, that stuff comes in 4' x 8' sheets. I have a stack of it in one corner of my workshop, real Mother of Country Squire stuff. I use it to protect the floor when we have to move something heavy in or out.

[drz400]

delete

[drz400]

I saw a 90's ODS with MF everywhere
Some Metal Oxide on cathodes, 2 carbon films, not one visible RN65
Mix of Mouser and CTS pots

I'm starting to think he uses what he has around and then tweaks to taste.

Starting??

Still had the station wagon wood laminate Board you cant find that stuff anywhere these days, any sources?

Well it seems that so much credance is given to every choice of part that Alexander uses when he doesnt seem to care as much. That amp I was talking about also had IC filter caps and NTE (repackaged who knows what of course) for the bias and relay supply . Now if you say that the majical amps used Carbon Films and the RNs well then OK, but why would Dumble use something different if he really felt the same way. Does he just not know?

As far as the wood grained phenolic over vulcanized fiber it could possibly be for hygroscopic, capacitance properties or sheer voodo. Maybe he had some walls in that old house he tore down and decided they would make good circuit board material. The weird thing is that if this is a concern why would he used unwaxed bottom board out of Vulcanized fiber when it does absorb moisture, why put it there at all then?

BTW I do agree that I like Carbon Films in the signal path.

These mysteries are like looking for Aliens

[CaseyJones]

These mysteries are like looking for Aliens

I got a dead one in the trunk o' my Malibu. Wanna take a peek?!!