HF Taper Jibba Jabba

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UltraHookedOnPhonix
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HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by UltraHookedOnPhonix »

I had some observations about the internal HF taper potentiometer that I thought I'd share. As many of you already know the common way to construct one of these is to connect a low-pass filter between the Ratio and 150K resistor at the end of OD2. As Electron Avalanche noted, ODS
#123 has a 500K resistor wired as a variable resistor, one of the outer lugs connects to the junction of the 150K and Ratio control the other to a .022uF cap leading to ground. Gil uses the same control but with different values: 250K and .001uF.

It is my understanding that the corner frequency is then 14.5Hz for HAD's and 636.9Hz for Gil's. What's interesting to note about HAD's is that the corner frequency changes very little over the range of the pot. For HAD's filter to have approximately the same corner frequency as Gil's, a 10K pot with a .022uF cap might as well be used.

Also, interesting is the fact that when the HF pot is open a hard wired low-pass filter forms between the 150K resistor and the .022uF cap with a cutoff frequency of 48.3Hz. I guess HAD designed it to be imperceptible whereas Gil's corner frequency will be 1061.6Hz with an open HF pot.

Question:

1. Is the control designed to cut highs when turned CW or CCW? Gil, you've posted before that you set this control at about 30%. On the 250K pot, do you connect lugs 1 & 2 together or 3 & 2?

2. I've never seen an amp with the HF taper inside. Does anyone know if HAD mounts it on a board like Gil or on the back of the Ratio pot?

OK, to summarize:

Judging by the values alone, HAD's taper is quite ineffective. Yes, it does it's job but the only usable range is a small fraction of the pots rotation. Gil's has a much more usable range, this is probably the one I'll use in my non-HRM amp. The only downer with the 250K/.001 is that there is
cutoff when HF pot is open, whatever!

If you want to play around with the values of these HF taper controls, go to: www.muzique.com/schem/filter.htm

Or if you want to expand on the HF Taper concept check this out (written in the context of pedals): www.muzique.com/lab/swtc.htm

I have a feeling that I've overlooked or misinterpreted something. Can someone give me a clue?

Anyone? Thoughts, speculation, feelings of rage? :lol:

P.S. Have a HAPPY NEW YEAR Everyone!!!! D.S.
Last edited by UltraHookedOnPhonix on Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tonejunkie
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by tonejunkie »

Thanks for posting about this I had a question about this also. In my current build I have tried this and I was expecting a similar effect as a guitar tone control but found it was much more subtle. Is this supposed to be subtle in its HF attenuation? I am using the 250k/.001 configuration. Thanks
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dave g
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by dave g »

I am currently building a non-HRM with the 250k/.001 HFT. However, I'm using a push-pull pot and mounting it on the front panel as a "cut" control next to the OD level. Pulling the control out completely removes the HFT from the circuit, so you can still use the amp with no taper.
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UltraHookedOnPhonix
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by UltraHookedOnPhonix »

-tonejunkie-

I guess it's one of those mods that if you feel it necessary to take the hair off your OD, it can effectively do so. I'm not sure that it should be subtle though. It's very similar in operation and component values to the AC30's "Cut" control and there should be a definite loss of highs percieved. It might be worth ditching the 250K pot entirely and playing around with different value caps to ground after the 150K res.

Conversely, Dave G's idea of using a push-pull is great, especially when switching guitars or preamp tubes. Acts like a "tone bias" :roll:

Thanks guys! :)
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dave g
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by dave g »

I actually came up with the idea after I had built a non-HRM for a friend and voiced it to my tastes. When he got it, he said that the OD was nice and smooth and not harsh at all, but a little too bright for him. Well, he plays a mahogany bodied Campbell American Precix with a bolt-on maple neck and P90s, and I play a Heritage 535. With the control in there you can get that darker OD he was looking for with a brighter guitar, but not entirely neuter the amp if you're using a mellower guitar (or if you simply prefer a brighter tone, like I do)
dogears
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by dogears »

I've been using it for years after discussing it with Gil. I like the .001uf value as well. Although I haven't experimented much with alternatives. I do much prefer a 500k trimmer. The 250K when set at its brightest, still has a big effect on tone. The 500K removes it more from the circuit.

Fwiw, the Dumble with the .02uf cap/bleed, had no ratio control form what the person who posted about it said. Therefore, my guess is that it is not a treble bleed, but a loading circuit since the OD was against the 1M master.

The .02uf allows most all frequencies through.
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dave g
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by dave g »

Hmm...perhaps even going to a 1M would be interesting?
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Structo
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by Structo »

I'm trying to follow this.
Scott are you referring to the cap on the bass pot?
Thanks
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
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UltraHookedOnPhonix
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by UltraHookedOnPhonix »

Structo

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the .001 cap on the HF Taper control.
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Structo
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by Structo »

HF= High Frequency?
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
dogears
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by dogears »

We are talking about the "supplemental" treble bleed HF (high freq) trimmer. Hangs off of the OD plate or after the series resistor that feeds the level control.
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Funkalicousgroove
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by Funkalicousgroove »

The control on the amp I have here is labelled "Overdrive Presence" and uses a 500K pot, and a .0039uf cap to ground
Owner/Solder Jockey Bludotone Amp Works
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UltraHookedOnPhonix
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by UltraHookedOnPhonix »

So that's what that was for! Interesting...implemented as early as 75'

Thanks Funk! 8)
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greiswig
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by greiswig »

Jonas wrote:(SNIP)
It is my understanding that the corner frequency is then 14.5Hz for HAD's and 636.9Hz for Gil's. (SNIP)
This is a treble bleed with a knee that low??? I'm confused. It must have a very low slope!

Is there a schematic somewhere that shows these with common values in a Dumble?
-g
tubedogsmith
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Re: HF Taper Jibba Jabba

Post by tubedogsmith »

Funkalicousgroove wrote:The control on the amp I have here is labelled "Overdrive Presence" and uses a 500K pot, and a .0039uf cap to ground
It looks like it has another resistor going to ground off the board too doesn't it?
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