Tweedle Dee / mods or not?

[ChopSauce]

A few years back, I started randomly gathering a few parts for a Dee-luxe as a background task of the lowest priority

DSC_5933.JPG

but Fred's build combining Mr Dee mods with Rob Rob's channel cascading pulled the trigger.

(amongst) EDIT(s):

- forgot about the idea to switch channels with a relay and intend to build the thing into a narrow panel tweed deluxe cab - and the corresponding chassis -

- changed titles to reflect project states.

[norburybrook]

I got my whole set of parts from Mike @modulus amplification. He's a member here and put a kit together after we spece'd everything out for my build

https://modulusamplification.com/Modulu ... 75275.aspx


I like your idea of the switching.......I'd need Martin Manning to work that out for me though as I seem to have a blind spot with relays and switches.


I'll look forward to your build




M

[ChopSauce]

I am not very used to the schematic of switches, either. I will have to look at this more in depth.

EDIT: I plan to achieve the 3PDT switching with two DPDT relays in parallel. Shouldn't that work?

NB: (not sure that may help you, Marcus) the schematic below shows the position for which the cascading is achieved.



In the other position (pole 4 connected to pole 1, pole 5 to pole 2 and pole 6 to pole 3), the connections are back to normal.

(dunno where I think I could read the switch achieves both cascading and paralleling... )

[ChopSauce]

I'll look forward to your build
M

Thanks for your interest...

Your samples https://soundcloud.com/marcus-cliffe/se ... sound-clip were amongst the most convincing ones to me, need I say. I also think I'll try the NFB switch, following your advice.

Two more links...

- Tweedle-Dee plus pre-PI Master Volume: https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33384

- Cascading channels in the Tweedle Dee: https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32027

EDIT: for the sake of completion, amongst the mods I could envision for this build:

- also suggested by Marcus, tuning the 680k resistor between cascaded channels - maybe -

- and I could see a presence control pot on the MojoTone tweed pro kit

MojoTone-Tweed-Pro-SCH.gif

which might be a worthy add-on to the NFB mod.

- and that https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/kit-d ... r-6-v.html was the relay kit I was planning to use, possibly sitting under a dog house, on the back of the chassis.

[ChopSauce]

So for the sake of completion, I made a list of mods - with links, above - but I finally feel like the original Tweedle Dee will distort enough for me, especially with the (rather) lower voltage power transformers that currently sell in Europe.

So, I think I'll build a stock Tweedle as a start, even though my daughter wants me to build it as a Ceriatone-Tee looking head

ceriatone-T-46401657755_c128f8a5d2_k.jpg

which somewhat appeals to much modding...

[norburybrook]

having returned to mine today later in the day, on stock settings the amp starts to break up at anything over 3 on the volume so there's plenty of gain/breakup available on a stock amp. If anything this amp needs less not more gain IMHO as it's hard to get any kind of real clean headroom from it at a reasonable volume.


I'm not sure these mods improve the amp now in retrospect.


M

p.s. that relay looks great, from a 6v heater tap as well. Thanks for the heads up on that. The mojo tone schematic looks very interesting. If you added cascading to that I recon that would be a great amp as it's using a AT7 with less gain in V1 and also i think the tonestack would adress the excessive bass issues and presence would be a nice adittion.

That's got me thinking. My chassis has 3 pre amp tube cut outs already I wonder if I could mod my board for this or would it be a completely new build.

[ChopSauce]

The schematic is supposed to be a custom version of the 5E5 pro amp, from Fender - if I caught it well. Here it is: https://www.mojotone.com/kits/TweedAmpK ... fier-Kit_2#

[norburybrook]

The schematic is supposed to be a custom version of the 5E5 pro amp, from Fender - if I caught it well. Here it is: https://www.mojotone.com/kits/TweedAmpK ... fier-Kit_2#

ah yes.

Here's a good layout. would be easy to mod this with the tweedle dee mods.

5E5ACeriatone.jpg

M

[fred.violleau]

Guys, I spent the day modding mine as well with Martin's suggestion for the Master volume.
I ended up reverting back to what I had done in the first place. The MV made the amp sound sterile.
But adding a pot between V2A coupling cap and the PI entrance acts as a MV (sort of) and keeps the original caracter of the amp when pot is turned full on
I really enjoy the passive FX loop, works fine, although I am thinking of building a princetone clone so I get another small amp for a wet/dry or a clean/dirt setup .
I wish I had read about the single coil/humbucker switch, would be probably a great addition to deal with the extra bass on humbuckers as well.
BTW, this a great demo on how to understand the interactions between the volumes pots and tone pot on a 5E3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN2vqCxaeC0

Good luck with your build ChopSauce! This amp is great, but I had to buy a new set of JJs today since the old Sylvania I had just burned... It gets hot so better put on overspeced PT on this build so it runs cool.

Also, you may think about head vs combo, because in a combo, the chassis will have the tube heating the chassis. I have a tween build to complete with 715 caps vs 6PS caps (I know I am abit OCD sometimes) and I am thinking of putting this one in a head too, but the opposite way, so when it runs hot, it is not heating the whole chassis.

My 2 cents here

Fred.

[fred.violleau]

Indeed, using the cascading option with a realy is a great idea! but it really brings in a lot more signal .... way louder.
So.. put a trimmer instead of the 680k on the cascading relay so you may play with it ! I would ground the excess signal (did this in my previous build per Marcus's suggestion and it worked great!) and let you dial how much of the chan 1 signal you want to add.
You don't need the whole gain channel 1 is able to send, eventually it turns into double distortion.. So you could cut it off before that happens.

[ChopSauce]

Thanks for the report and the many suggestions. I think the caps on the original are 716P, not 715. I have attached a revised version of Phil's BOM(1). I am probably mistaking several things but this is my best guess at the components.

I read good things about a stereo setup using two (fairly) small amps so good luck with your next build, too...
___

(1) https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 30#p375930

[norburybrook]

Guys, I spent the day modding mine as well with Martin's suggestion for the Master volume.
I ended up reverting back to what I had done in the firstr place. The MV made the amp sound sterile.
But adding a pot between V2A coupling cap and the PI entrance acts as a MV (sort of) and keeps the original caracter of the amp when pot is turned full on
I really enjoy the passive FX loop, works fine, although I am thinking of building a princetone clone so I get another small amp for a wet/dry or a clean/dirt setup .
I wish I had read about the single coil/humbucker switch, would be probably a great addition to deal with the extra bass on humbuckers as well.
BTW, this a great demo on how to understand the interactions between the volumes pots and tone pot on a 5E3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN2vqCxaeC0

Good luck with your build ChopSauce! This amp is great, but I had to buy a new set of JJs today since the old Sylvania I had just burned... It gets hot so better put on overspeced PT on this build so it runs cool.

Also, you may think about head vs combo, because in a combo, the chassis will have the tube heating the chassis. I have a tween build to complete with 715 caps vs 6PS caps (I know I am abit OCD sometimes) and I am thinking of putting this one in a head too, but the opposite way, so when it runs hot, it is not heating the whole chassis.

My 2 cents here

Fred.

Fred, thanks for the detailed reports and experimentation on this, valuable info for all builders. You'll love the princeton I made mine slightly bigger and used a Cannabis rex 12 inch speaker. It's great, again has a lot of bass but the tone stack means you can dial it out to suit. I also added a Dwell pot on the rear which makes dialling in the perfect reverb easy.

Guys, that video is using a standard tweed deluxe, if you build like the tweedle dee with separate cathodes etc then there is no volume interaction.

onwards.....




M

[fred.violleau]

Ha interesting!

My amp has interactions between the volumes and the tone. especially with the full on setting.
Even on channel 2 if I flip the cascading switch, it adds more texture to the sound. Maybe it is because I derailed from the original with the funky PI entrance.

I will bypass the pot today and see how it sounds. It looks like the way I arranged it is not harmful, but it is not the right way to do it either.

[norburybrook]

Ha interesting!

My amp has interactions between the volumes and the tone. especially with the full on setting.
Even on channel 2 if I flip the cascading switch, it adds more texture to the sound. Maybe it is because I derailed from the original with the funky PI entrance.

I will bypass the pot today and see how it sounds. It looks like the way I arranged it is not harmful, but it is not the right way to do it either.

all good Fred, that's why we're here,


I'm going to remove mine and just use the 470k Grid stopper, I think that sounded better Also I realise my bass cut switch doesn't work when in cascade more...need to look at that

I'm tempted though to strip this an build the 5E5-A pro and add the cascading mod. I think the T and B tone stack would be a good addition...... or just leave it stock and build a proper high gain Jose mod Marshall......

M

[norburybrook]

If I remove the master and the tone control I could fit this tone stack

Baxandall_Tone_Stack_Layout.png

could someone tell me where the input and outputs are for this, and what coupling caps need to be added?


TIA


M