A while ago we were having a discussion about new dale's and old ones.
Charlie Wilson very kindly sent me a set of NOS dale RND to replace my new ones in my 2nd gen amp. I replaced the 4 plate resistors on V1 and 2 and the 2 resistors on the PI which also meant adding a trim pot. So 6 in all and a trim pot for the PI which I set after installing.
I was hopeful of some magic especially after it had taker the US postal service and the royal mail 14 weeks for them to get here!! but alas for me, I honestly couldn't tell the difference. I could have persuaded myself I could perhaps hear a difference but everytime I went back to the quick recording I'd done before and after I realised I couldn't reliably tell which was which despite the inconsistencies of playing etc.
So , big thanks to Charlie and here's the recording. you'll hear clean new dales phrase, then clean with the NOS dales, and again Dirty new dales and then dirty NOS dales.
resistor test.mp3
This is just my personal experience I'm sharing and as always YMMV
M
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Hey M. Nice playing. Listening to the recording it seems to my ears there is a small but detectable difference in the upper highs on the second recording in each segment. Quite interesting actually, the first time I have hear a distinctive difference. If you play a snippet of the first recording and ditto with the other my ears hear more open sound on the second? I might try the same.
I am listening through Cubase 10, Dynaudio BM15 and dac1 from Benchmark .
Last edited by Oddvar R on Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think it's really cool that you shared this! THANKS!
I listened a couple of times thru. Keeping in mind, that I'm listening thru moderately priced computer speakers ………………….
It makes sense given your a pro musician (and what you do is often recorded and not just played live) to have A/B-d this on a sound clip.
I thought the 2nd "clean" demo sounded warmer then the 1st clean demo which sounded a little brighter/chimey-er. I preferred the 2nd clean tone. However, in a band mix, I think maybe demo clean 1 might cut thru the mix somewhat "better".
I couldn't hear any difference between OD1 demo and OD2 demo at all.
thanks guys. I suppose i should have NOT said which was which so there was no confirmation bias. Also bear in mind that I could do this same test with NO changes and the difference in playing would bring up slight tonal changes, if I hit the strings slight nearer the bridge or harder then you'll have a distinct tonal change. Unfortunately it's not really that scientific but I felt it was worth documenting and sharing.
Thanks for sharing Marcus. Really nice. On the OD setting I thought the difference was less noticable but on the clean setting I prefer the second recording, a bit warmer to my ears.
didit wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:27 pm
Recommend editing your initial post with four separate MP3s and don’t disclose the order.
yes, I suddenly thought about that , hence my post above.
As I said , it's very hard to be scientific when playing phrases like this as there's a huge scope for tone change just in your own playing dynamics. As i said ,personally I couldn't hear/feel any difference even though I really wanted to. If people hear that NOS parts work better then by all means go out there and use them. Bear in mind also, there's a P.I balance Pot in the mix too which you would think would add some mojo, but even adding that to the 6 resistor changes didn't do much for me.
I'm happy for people to take what they want from this as it stands As I Said in another thread a few months ago, if it matters to YOU then by all means use NOS or whatever resistor /capacitor brand you want , at the end of the day, it's YOUR amp.
Marcus thanks for taking time to test and record this.
I defintly hear a difference between the segments.
First thing that comes to mind: Why didn't you use a loop pedal or reamping? I hear so much difference on your playing and attack which make it even more difficult to hear specifics.
Anyway Iiked the 2nd clip clean better more harmonics more depth in sound and the first clip with drive. Again difficult to credit you or the resistors.
erwin_ve wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:33 pm
Marcus thanks for taking time to test and record this.
I defintly hear a difference between the segments.
First thing that comes to mind: Why didn't you use a loop pedal or reamping? I hear so much difference on your playing and attack which make it even more difficult to hear specifics.
Anyway Iiked the 2nd clip clean better more harmonics more depth in sound and the first clip with drive. Again difficult to credit you or the resistors.
Erwin
I was gong to use a looper, but when I mentioned this a few people said I needed to 'feel' the difference if possible and using a looper wouldn't do that. Again, for me , the differences are not the resistors but the human element as I couldn't tell the difference in feel or sound in the room.
you'll hear clean new dales phrase, then clean with the NOS dales, and again Dirty new dales and then dirty NOS dales
FWIW, I skim read your post & I did not take this literally as the chronology of what I'd hear, I thought you were simply saying there were two sound clips showing contrast between resistors ………. one of clean (which you recorded prior to changing out the resistors) and one of dirty (which you recorded after the change of resistors). My response preferring the tone of the 2nd clean was because I preferred that.
Personally, IF I had a "confirmation bias" in this ………….. it would lean towards the new resistors since I have a big stash of them and have NO clue where I'd get NOS ones. I don't want the NOS ones to sound "better".
I was talking to a friend at a Vintage Guitar show and we both agreed that sometimes guys pay that 20k for the 5% difference you hear between a real vintage instrument and a newer(well made) one. There is no mojo magic parts but they do sound different. Sometimes it is that 2% or 5% improvement that makes the difference between a good sounding amp and a great one. I may be biased but as far as the clips go, I like a clear, open top end on my plate resistors. The odd thing to me is that all of the people posting said they hear a difference in either clean or dirty or both. Not a single poster said they hear no difference in the clips yet you say you hear no difference being in the room with the amp. That is the problem I have with all this being scientific business. Yes, an amp builder can use whatever components they want but that wasn't the point. The original question was, "Is there a difference in sound?" and the consensus thus far is there is.
CW
Posting clips always cracks me up!. They are always the same result. Player says he can tell the difference post clips. Listeners say they sound the same or B. Player says he cannot tell a difference and listener prefers one over the other. Clip test ends in more confusion than before the test began. I'll just say I can tell a difference between clean clips and as for the OD clips I couldn't tell much difference. It sounded to me that there was hardly any treble on the OD clips. So it was hard for me to hear much if any difference in top end or harmonic content
Listening through Macintosh/Klipsch A/V home system.
I was talking to a friend at a Vintage Guitar show and we both agreed that sometimes guys pay that 20k for the 5% difference you hear between a real vintage instrument and a newer(well made) one. There is no mojo magic parts but they do sound different. Sometimes it is that 2% or 5% improvement that makes the difference between a good sounding amp and a great one.
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Charlie Wilson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:29 pm
I was talking to a friend at a Vintage Guitar show and we both agreed that sometimes guys pay that 20k for the 5% difference you hear between a real vintage instrument and a newer(well made) one. There is no mojo magic parts but they do sound different. Sometimes it is that 2% or 5% improvement that makes the difference between a good sounding amp and a great one. I may be biased but as far as the clips go, I like a clear, open top end on my plate resistors. The odd thing to me is that all of the people posting said they hear a difference in either clean or dirty or both. Not a single poster said they hear no difference in the clips yet you say you hear no difference being in the room with the amp. That is the problem I have with all this being scientific business. Yes, an amp builder can use whatever components they want but that wasn't the point. The original question was, "Is there a difference in sound?" and the consensus thus far is there is.
CW
I agree to this, there is a difference. In my opinion the differences in sounds in music often is in the small percentages, but people expect to hear big differences, so they avoid hearing the small ones. Another point is that you must train yourself in identifying what you are listening for. Often when one listens the ears hear it but the awareness wants something else. And the ability to actually hear is developed differently in us, the clusters of hearing neurons are larger in some than others.
