New build 2nd gen hybrid reverb with high plates on v1

[erwin_ve]

Recently finsihed some pcb designs for the ODS, fitting in the Amplified Nation Chassis.
Today received the pcb.
Cool thing on the signal board it is basically the same as a eyelet board; the through holes are copper and as big as a eyelet, room for modding in case I want it without destroying the PCB. Only ,what would normally be the small wires (like slope to mid tonestack) is pcb.
All other boards are "real"Pcb.

So what's it gonna be: Hybrid 2nd gen 50w but a little different:
-V1 with high plates.
-Built in Dlator
-Built in Solid State Reverb with a harvested old accutronics tank from a Peavey deuce.
I checked the Peavey schematic: the power supply for the reverb is done from the bias tap winding but reversed. I like that idea and gonna try that.
Since this is a 50 w I think that part will be on one of the not used powertube holes. The signal board for the solid state reverb will be on the other unused powertube hole.

Old 70-ies Bassman PT and OT.

Some things are new; I plan to take a long time build.
Start:

[erwin_ve]

And the relay boards.

[dcribbs1412]

Great looking boards!
Will be interested how the amp turns out, along with the reverb.

D

[erwin_ve]

Great looking boards!
Will be interested how the amp turns out, along with the reverb.

D

Thank You!
I"ll be interested too, never done a built in reverb before.

Some progress:

[BarryW]

absolutely, very cool indeed. I love my 2nd gen. I'm really interested in incorporating reverb, but haven't had time to complete my reverb build yet. Very interested to see this one develop. Nice boards!

[amplifiednation]

Looks cool! Those NOS resistors are tasty

[erwin_ve]

Looks cool! Those NOS resistors are tasty

The big ones are NOS Beyschlag. They look similar to NOS Piher that are obtainable on your side of the pond.

[talbany]

Erwin
Coming together nicely. The tail resistor on the PI looks Red Red yellow to me?? 220k. I also see 1.2M impedance resistor feeding the switch. shouldn't that be a 1M?. Just checking my eyes.
Also what value are you using for your GNFB resistor?
Thanks!
Tony

[erwin_ve]

Erwin
Coming together nicely. The tail resistor on the PI looks Red Red yellow to me?? 220k. I also see 1.2M impedance resistor feeding the switch. shouldn't that be a 1M?. Just checking my eyes.
Also what value are you using for your GNFB resistor?
Thanks!
Tony

Tony,
Thanks for checking!
The PI tail resistor is a 22k, it really is red-red-orange and measured, despite the color variations on the monitor.

The 1.2M; you mean the V2b resistor after the cap? Good catch; it should be 1M I was messingh with the od entrance when picking the resistor. Even measured it on my MM.

For the GNFB I use a 3K3 resistor. I used this on my previous 2nd gen hybrid and I liked it best after trying some bigger values like 4K7/ 5K1.
On the other hand I try to keep a open mind on this, since it is a 50w, instead of my previous 100w build.

Thanks
Erwin

[talbany]

Erwin
Good I am glad it's a 22K there. The .2M difference won't be that big of a change at V2b but better to keep it D-spec. 1 other thing I noticed is the Ground resistor for the PI on the 2nd gen is a 100 ohm (ala Fender) a 390 may affect GNFB. You can keep the 390 there and then just compensate with a different value feedback resistor.
I agree with your argument on the value of the GNFB. I generally hook up a decade box there after all the smoke testing and dial in a value that feels the best with my style/ speakers and range of the presence pot. I like the lively feel of an amp that is less clamped by wrapping a ton of negative signal around the output section. I generally like just enough to increase the damping factor but not enough to squash the top end t. Sometimes the values Dumble sports works well overall sometimes it needs a little tweaking. Also as a suggestion!. I have a built in D-lator in my 100w and I actually prefer it taken out of the signal path when not in use. That extra gain stage right before the PI can and will change the feel and character of the amp when you jumper it and leave it in circuit. You might like it you might not, just giving you a heads up on that call. Dick around with it and you will see what I mean..
BTW.
Is this your first rodeo with a 2nd gen amp?
2nd what is it that you are looking to get out of the amp in your quest for sonic utopia?
3 Are you going with an OD master on the amp?
4. I generally uses a 10k balance pot. 5k there doesn't give you much range. with a 5k both triodes will need to still be closely matched. Just thought i would suggest it having gone through more tubes than I would have thought.
Just curious

Tony

[erwin_ve]

Is this your first rodeo with a 2nd gen amp?
2nd what is it that you are looking to get out of the amp in your quest for sonic utopia?
3 Are you going with an OD master on the amp?
4. I generally uses a 10k balance pot. 5k there doesn't give you much range. with a 5k both triodes will need to still be closely matched. Just thought i would suggest it having gone through more tubes than I would have thought.
Just curious

Tony

Tony,

1. No it's my 2nd rodeo with a 2nd gen hybrid ; the previous one is documented here: https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29845

2. A a low weight 50w combo amp with reverb , loop, Celestion BN type speaker(2kg/4.4lb).
2nd gen hybrid is by far my favourite amp, but the high plate clean is something I like very much. Some experimentation on the v1 high plates wont hurt, If it doesnt work out it is a easy revert to low plate.
So basically a grab and go amp for smaller gigs/rehearsals. One thing I like about the dlator, when driven hard, is the compression and overtones, feels like a playing the amp real loud on softer volumes. On my other one this dlator is a 19" external unit. With the settings and parts used, there is sonically very little difference between the basic sound and with dlator(apart from the compression and overtones).
For me building is a hobby; pushing the limits a bit further every new build in terms of looks and sound. When it turns out right it is going to be used, Im a pro musician.

3. This is a 2nd gen hybrid. The masters are like a HRM. Technically the OD is "seeing" only the 1M pot(Od Master)before going to the PI or loop in my case.

4.The PI is a 12AT7 with 47k and 51k plates. Don't you think the 10k is a lttle too much for sonic nirvana? Curious on your opinion there.
I had good luck sofar with my previous build to get the output section balanced with a 5k.
Thanks!

Erwin

[talbany]

Is this your first rodeo with a 2nd gen amp?
2nd what is it that you are looking to get out of the amp in your quest for sonic utopia?
3 Are you going with an OD master on the amp?
4. I generally uses a 10k balance pot. 5k there doesn't give you much range. with a 5k both triodes will need to still be closely matched. Just thought i would suggest it having gone through more tubes than I would have thought.
Just curious

Tony

Tony,

1. No it's my 2nd rodeo with a 2nd gen hybrid ; the previous one is documented here: https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29845

2. A a low weight 50w combo amp with reverb , loop, Celestion BN type speaker(2kg/4.4lb).
2nd gen hybrid is by far my favourite amp, but the high plate clean is something I like very much. Some experimentation on the v1 high plates wont hurt, If it doesnt work out it is a easy revert to low plate.
So basically a grab and go amp for smaller gigs/rehearsals. One thing I like about the dlator, when driven hard, is the compression and overtones, feels like a playing the amp real loud on softer volumes. On my other one this dlator is a 19" external unit. With the settings and parts used, there is sonically very little difference between the basic sound and with dlator(apart from the compression and overtones).
For me building is a hobby; pushing the limits a bit further every new build in terms of looks and sound. When it turns out right it is going to be used, Im a pro musician.

3. This is a 2nd gen hybrid. The masters are like a HRM. Technically the OD is "seeing" only the 1M pot(Od Master)before going to the PI or loop in my case.

4.The PI is a 12AT7 with 47k and 51k plates. Don't you think the 10k is a lttle too much for sonic nirvana? Curious on your opinion there.
I had good luck sofar with my previous build to get the output section balanced with a 5k.
Thanks!

Erwin

Erwin
Thanks for the response!.I would respectfully disagree that there is very little difference with the loop in circuit. I found the more gain stages you put after the tone stack the less responsive the stack becomes I could actually hear more of the sound of the D-lator and less of the actual amp. As an example right! One of the reasons why the 5F6A (Bassman) stack is so responsive and has so much range (than say a BF Fender) is because it's right before the PI no recovery amp follows it. (it is also driven by a follower which doesn't hurt)
I like you dig the compression and the 2nd order the follower spews but didn't care for the strident sound of the (cleaner)recovery amp in the d-lator(without an effx unit attached)
It was actually Scott learner and Gary that turned me on to the 10k pot. We found that the 5k didn't offer as much swing (about 5V) in either direction. The 10k gives you a bit more so I didn't have to go through as many 12AT/AX's to find one that was within tolerance. The 5k works they are just more picky about how closely matched they need to be that's all I am sayin!

So, of course, all of this is purely my opinion and things I noticed about my 2nd gen with the built in lator using no outboard gear. I am just sharing these with you!. So from one pro player to another Whatever opens the flood gates of your sonic Nirvana! You like what the lator brings!.Have at it. Good Luck with the build.



Tony

[erwin_ve]

Erwin
Thanks for the response!.I would respectfully disagree that there is very little difference with the loop in circuit. I found the more gain stages you put after the tone stack the less responsive the stack becomes I could actually hear more of the sound of the D-lator and less of the actual amp. As an example right! One of the reasons why the 5F6A (Bassman) stack is so responsive and has so much range (than say a BF Fender) is because it's right before the PI no recovery amp follows it. (it is also driven by a follower which doesn't hurt)
I like you dig the compression and the 2nd order the follower spews but didn't care for the strident sound of the (cleaner)recovery amp in the d-lator(without an effx unit attached)
It was actually Scott learner and Gary that turned me on to the 10k pot. We found that the 5k didn't offer as much swing (about 5V) in either direction. The 10k gives you a bit more so I didn't have to go through as many 12AT/AX's to find one that was within tolerance. The 5k works they are just more picky about how closely matched they need to be that's all I am sayin!

So, of course, all of this is purely my opinion and things I noticed about my 2nd gen with the built in lator using no outboard gear. I am just sharing these with you!. So from one pro player to another Whatever opens the flood gates of your sonic Nirvana! You like what the lator brings!.Have at it. Good Luck with the build.



Tony

Tony,
Thanks for sharing your experiences.

With all other builds I was never fully satisfied with the Dlator and absolutely can follow your experiences.
In my previous build I did a #124 style loop(the resistor/ cap feeding the loop). Together with the Dlator using the Bright switch on the recovery, the basic sound is almost the same. Try it: off course, settings on the recovery pot matter and the used cap on the recovery Bright switch too.
And the Dlator used, has old style CF 1k5-10k.

10k VS 5k. I agree 10k has a wider useable sweet spot: my thoughts werd merely on the differences between the 12ax7 pi 100-110k (10% difference) and the 12at7 pi 47k-51k (almost 10% difference). Putting a balance pot on top of this with the 10% difference. Anyway the 12at7 has pi resistor values that are closer together, hence my thoughts on the 5k pot.

[Charlie Wilson]

Hello, one other thing to consider in using a 10k trimmer with 47k/51k plate resistors is that the trimmer's value is double the value relative to the 110k/120k plate resistor value. I haven't done the math but the wattage rating of the trimmer may be an issue.
CW

[erwin_ve]

Hello, one other thing to consider in using a 10k trimmer with 47k/51k plate resistors is that the trimmer's value is double the value relative to the 110k/120k plate resistor value. I haven't done the math but the wattage rating of the trimmer may be an issue.
CW

Good point Charlie, didnt think of that before.