changing the voicing of a D'Lite

[TimS]

Hi everybody.

I'm new, both to this website and to building amps. Looking forward to learning from all of you and hopefully eventually getting to the point where I can contribute something to the discussion.

Anyway, I've got one of the last D'Lite kits coming my way so I'm learning as much as I can about D-style circuits and the various tweaks and mods that exist for them. I figure it would probably be best to build the amp as designed and make sure it's working properly before I start screwing with it (though I wouldn't mind starting with some simple, proven component changes that would already put it in the direction I want to go in), but after that it's fair game.

I'm looking for something a little different from my amp than probably most people on this forum. While I admire the playing of guys like Ford and Carlton (not to mention Lerner), that's not the sort of sound I'm after. Rather, I'm attracted to the D-style amp for its touch sensitivity, versatility, and because it's close enough to where I want to go that I think it could get there with the proper modification.

Basically what I would like to do is to tighten up the bass and add some emphasis to the upper mids. Sort of move a bit away from the AB763 voicing and a bit toward a Tweed Bassman/Marshall voicing (not that I expect it to sound like either of those amps; that's just an example of the direction I'd like to move in). I figure that tightening the bass and increasing the upper mids should improve the amp's clarity for chordal playing and give some bite to power chords, while still maintaining an overall Dumble character.

Any suggestions as to how this could be done?

[heisthl]

Wait til you build it - I think you'll find the tone controls and switches will get you there.

[Darkbluemurder]

For increased high mid response and tighter bass I would use a 0.047uF mid cap. The skyliner stack (the one with the 0.01uF mid cap) will definitely add more low mids.

I would keep the 500pf cap that bypasses the 220k resistor before V1b. I would probably use a 0.01uF (not a 0.047uF) coupling cap after V1b. The 70s schem uses the 0.01uF coupling cap but not the 500pf. The skyliner schem uses 0.047uF and the 500pf.

And finally I would try to make the snubber caps on V2a and V2b as small as possible (try 270pf and gradually increase if it's too harsh).

Good luck!
Stephan

[west]

You might also consider using 10" speakers instead of 12s.
Thats what I did, and my setup sounds very different than Robbin Ford.

[llemtt]

Best way is to convert power amp values to Marshall Plexi ones, and of course switch to a pair of el34 if heaters winding allows.

Tweaking preamp could be a waste of time unless you are looking for subtle changes.

cheers
Teo

[TimS]

Thanks for the responses.

Best way is to convert power amp values to Marshall Plexi ones, and of course switch to a pair of el34 if heaters winding allows.

Tweaking preamp could be a waste of time unless you are looking for subtle changes.

Well, I don't really want the amp to sound like a Marshall. I still want a predominantly American sound, but with more openness and clarity and less flub and mush to it. I'm not sure what it would take to get there, but I think I still want to use something from the 6L6/5881 family.

Imagine something a little like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQy4mBGpdLE but with a sweeter, more open high end.

And yes, I recognize the irony of trying to make a Dumble clone that sounds like a Soldano trying to sound like a Dumble.

[llemtt]

Sorry but I can't understand you completely, and the youtube can't help a lot cause there's so much compressor in it

Are you maybe in a "I want it black&white, short&tall, slim&fat,..." state of mind?

A sweeter and more open high-end is an elusive target while you move away from a clean sound, while "american sound" and tightness are opposite concepts, there are limits in usual tube amp technology that force lots of compromises. Today all top players that can afford it use more then one amp to obtain their palette of sounds...

Anyway are you talking about clean, crunch, mid-overdrive or a fully saturated sound?

Overall I agree with other posts suggesting tweaks to the tone-stack, start with treble cap and increase it from 330p to a more marshall 470p, this will increase high-mids. Then play with mid cap between 10n and 47n because this moves the low-mid cut. These are simple things to try out.

But... 50% or more of the character of an amp lies in his power section, so a plexi power amp with 5881s is worth a try

cheers
Teo

[TimS]

Sorry but I can't understand you completely, and the youtube can't help a lot cause there's so much compressor in it

Yeah, it's not the best sounding clip in the world. Basically what I was getting at was that the amp in that clip sounds fuller in the lower midrange and less edgy in the upper midrange than most Marshall-style amps, but with a tighter bottom and more edge than most Dumble-style amps. That's pretty much what I'm going for - something thicker and smoother than a typical Marshall, but tighter and edgier than a typical Dumble. Sort of lying in between the two tonewise.

Are you maybe in a "I want it black&white, short&tall, slim&fat,..." state of mind?

It's certainly possible, but I don't think so. I'm not looking for multiple sounds from one design that require completely different circuits and speakers to obtain (like the ever popular Fender clean and Marshall dirt combo). I'm just looking for a slightly different flavor of a single existing sound.

A sweeter and more open high-end is an elusive target while you move away from a clean sound, while "american sound" and tightness are opposite concepts, there are limits in usual tube amp technology that force lots of compromises.

There are limits to what can be done, but I think that what I'm after should be possible.

Oldmacman's clip in this threadhttps://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0 is very close to what I want from the high end. He ran the presence on 6; a higher setting might just nail it for me. Using that same clip as a reference, I'd like a bit more upper midrange content to add a little edge. A larger treble cap might do the trick. And the optimal combination of mid cap and coupling caps would hopefully allow me to eliminate some flub without losing the thickness in the lower mids. It's just a matter of figuring out what that combination is.

But... 50% or more of the character of an amp lies in his power section, so a plexi power amp with 5881s is worth a try

A plexi-style power amp with 5881s is exactly what I'm thinking about doing, though I'll probably try the stock D'Lite design first.

[dogears]

Fwiw, I think that the Youtube clip of the Soldano sounds like ass. Might as well be a Line 6

Check out Steelbenders Dumble clips. Lofi but you can tell that is good tone....

[TimS]

Fwiw, I think that the Youtube clip of the Soldano sounds like ass. Might as well be a Line 6

Why not tell us how you really feel?

[kleinm]

A plexi-style power amp with 5881s is exactly what I'm thinking about doing, though I'll probably try the stock D'Lite design first.

So you haven't heard the D'Lite in person yet? Hopefully this doesn't sound pointed, but I'd take a breather from figuring out how to mod the D'Lite until you've actually built it and heard it in person IMHO. You'll have a much clearer reference to work from. Then you can decide what you like, what you don't like, etc, etc. Again, just IMHO.

[TimS]

A plexi-style power amp with 5881s is exactly what I'm thinking about doing, though I'll probably try the stock D'Lite design first.

So you haven't heard the D'Lite in person yet? Hopefully this doesn't sound pointed, but I'd take a breather from figuring out how to mod the D'Lite until you've actually built it and heard it in person IMHO. You'll have a much clearer reference to work from. Then you can decide what you like, what you don't like, etc, etc. Again, just IMHO.

Well, my plan is to build the stock D'Lite first before changing anything. But I've heard a bunch of clips from different people with an assortment of guitars through a variety of speakers and while it isn't the same as hearing it in person, I think I've got a pretty decent idea of how it sounds. So I just thought I'd solicit some ideas for things to try if the stock circuit doesn't quite do it for me. In the process of looking for this information I've learned a good deal about how more experienced builders go about tweaking their amps to accomplish different goals, so it's been quite educational for me. And besides, the wait for the kit is killing me, so I had to do something to occupy my mind.

[daz]

Having built a d’lite I think TimS you are fairly on the money regarding the tone i.e. "wanting it fuller in the lower midrange and less edgy in the upper midrange than most Marshall-style amps, but with a tighter bottom."

I don't think you need to worry about edgy - it can get that way if you want it too.

But the direction you want it to head is kinda what I'm wanting to do the mine - I do find the bottom end a bit too loose especially in higher gain.
I'd like something tighter and fuller too.

Think I'll try some of Darkbluemurder suggestions.

[skyboltone]

Ahhhhh. This is the 'lite version. It's got 6V6s. Had never used those. If you want a Dumble amp build one. 6L6s, bassman iron, ODS 101 non HRM circuit. If you just use Normsters switching simplification scheme but keep everything else just as HAD did it, you'll be there. Re inventing the re invented.

Sounds like dogears said that.

Dan H

[drz400]

Fwiw, I think that the Youtube clip of the Soldano sounds like ass. Might as well be a Line 6

Check out Steelbenders Dumble clips. Lofi but you can tell that is good tone....

Gotta agree there
Of all the tones you could have picked, that just sounds like a terrible recording, doesnt sound like an SLO either