#183 ways to get more gain?

[Jhyatt2012]

What would be some good ways to push a 183 into higher gain territory? I really like the way it breaks up and would like to hear how it would sound pushing the EL34's a little harder.

[bluesfendermanblues]

Delete

[martin manning]

What would be some good ways to push a 183 into higher gain territory? I really like the way it breaks up and would like to hear how it would sound pushing the EL34's a little harder.

When you say "gain" do you really mean distortion? Power amp distortion is not really what the ODS is about. Have you tried adjusting the OD entrance trimmer?

[talbany]

Simple
Go with a Bluesmaster/Marshall output section

Tony

[Jhyatt2012]

What would be some good ways to push a 183 into higher gain territory? I really like the way it breaks up and would like to hear how it would sound pushing the EL34's a little harder.

When you say "gain" do you really mean distortion? Power amp distortion is not really what the ODS is about. Have you tried adjusting the OD entrance trimmer?

Absolutely, yes distortion. I do have the OD entrance trimmer to max. Yeah I know it's not traditional, I just want to play around with the sound a little and see if I like it or not.

[Jhyatt2012]

Simple
Go with a Bluesmaster/Marshall output section

Tony

I had thought about that and may try that in a future build Thanks!

[Jhyatt2012]

Other than the Bluesmaster/Marshall option, what would be some other good ways to increase the gain? Especially in the OD section.

[ayan]

Other than the Bluesmaster/Marshall option, what would be some other good ways to increase the gain? Especially in the OD section.

You can modify the entrance to the OD section and eliminate the 220K resistor that is in series with the 100K trimmer. The OD sound will be a lot gainier and brighter. Without changing anything else, you can make the OD sound less bright by upping the value of the trimmer from 100K to say 250K or 500K. The amp will start to sound more like a Boogie though, for good or bad depending upon your taste.

Gil

[jelle]

Or you can add Jose style diode clippers....

[briane]

a dumbleator might help here - crank it to the MAX!

[talbany]

Other than the Bluesmaster/Marshall option, what would be some other good ways to increase the gain? Especially in the OD section.

You can modify the entrance to the OD section and eliminate the 220K resistor that is in series with the 100K trimmer. The OD sound will be a lot gainier and brighter. Without changing anything else, you can make the OD sound less bright by upping the value of the trimmer from 100K to say 250K or 500K. The amp will start to sound more like a Boogie though, for good or bad depending upon your taste.

Gil

If you decide to go this route (lifting the load on V2A) the OD will get real Bassy (with 250k drive) so you will need to lower the bypass caps to 1uf (also more gain) and maybe lower the OD couplers to compensate..
BTW the hotter BM output section will make the amp crunchier( due impart to the 10k tail)..You will notice this on both channels...Also if your drastically increasing the gain in the OD section think about upping the snubber values (250 390 pf) on V2 and a 47pf across the PI plates in case the amp wants to start oscillate..

You could also play around with lifting the Tone stack (PAB) and or decreasing the amount of GNFB or a combination of all the above..

Good Luck!!

Tony

[ayan]

Just to be clear, Tony, I am not talking about lifting the V2A load. On the contrary, the total load is 220K + 100K (trimmer) and what I am suggesting is that the 220K resistor be eliminated and, if the resulting lead sound is too bright, the trimmer can be replaced with a 250K one. In the end, the overall load will be either 100K or 250K, as opposed to the 320K in the stock circuit. That is probably the easiest way to up the gain, and you can get a lot more gain out of the amps that way. Granted, as I said, it will start to sound more like a Boogie than a Dumble at some point.

Cheers,

Gil

Other than the Bluesmaster/Marshall option, what would be some other good ways to increase the gain? Especially in the OD section.

You can modify the entrance to the OD section and eliminate the 220K resistor that is in series with the 100K trimmer. The OD sound will be a lot gainier and brighter. Without changing anything else, you can make the OD sound less bright by upping the value of the trimmer from 100K to say 250K or 500K. The amp will start to sound more like a Boogie though, for good or bad depending upon your taste.

Gil

If you decide to go this route (lifting the load on V2A) the OD will get real Bassy (with 250k drive) so you will need to lower the bypass caps to 1uf (also more gain) and maybe lower the OD couplers to compensate..
BTW the hotter BM output section will make the amp crunchier( due impart to the 10k tail)..You will notice this on both channels...Also if your drastically increasing the gain in the OD section think about upping the snubber values (250 390 pf) on V2 and a 47pf across the PI plates in case the amp wants to start oscillate..

You could also play around with lifting the Tone stack (PAB) and or decreasing the amount of GNFB or a combination of all the above..

Good Luck!!

Tony

[talbany]

Gil
Gotcha.. Thanks for the explanation..


Tony

[ayan]

And since we're on the topic of restructuring the gain of the amps, I think I would do something different if it were easy to implement. For the OD channel, I would default to turning the preamp volume (V1A, if you would) all the way up and then have maybe control over the pre OD (V1B) trimmer and the "drive" (V2A) control from the front panel. For my taste and with all of my guitars, the OD always sounds "better" the higher the preamp's (V1A) volume control is set. The only limitation in setting that up high is that I like my clean channel to stay clean, and also because at some point the clean channel will be louder than the OD one -- my amps are all non HRMs with an overall master control.

Gil

Gil
Gotcha.. Thanks for the explanation..


Tony

[Structo]

I was going to say, that just by twisting the knobs you can get a very wide array of tones out of these amps.

1) Push the preamp for more gain

2) Push the power amp for more headroom

3) Turn up the gain and volume of the OD channel

Switch the GNFB resistor in or out. ( I have this on a switched pot)
Really gives it a raw hard rock tone.

Use a Dumbleator to achieve even more options.