Quinn goes PCB

[wjdunham]

Usually the wires in a D-style amp are *between* two boards, so there's no chance of it hanging down and contacting the chassis.

Good point, but not many clones I have seen have the sandwiched boards.
Bill

[glasman]

One other consideration which I haven't seen mentioned is safety. Having the B+ for the preamp stages running on a wire underneath the preamp board was always a concern for me. It can't be inspected, and if it detaches and contacts the bottom of the chassis it could be a big safety issue if the amp is not plugged in to a properly grounded outlet. It is also a service issue for the same reasons, can't be inspected or easily replaced.
Bill

It really depends on the layout. I can easily get to my source lines and they run under the board.

[Structo]

Great discussion guys!
I'm glad we can talk about this objectably without cork sniffery.

I think we can agree that technology is a good thing even when using something as archaic as vacuum tubes.

A lot of thought goes into properly designed PCB's and it's great for the guys using them to show us their examples.

[Cliff Schecht]

Do you PCB-based amp builders use a pick-and-place machine to stuff the boards or are you still stuffing the PCB's by hand? I can't see the latter saving much time and the former would worry me with production issues. Do you guys satisfy RoHS requirements?

[glasman]

Do you PCB-based amp builders use a pick-and-place machine to stuff the boards or are you still stuffing the PCB's by hand? I can't see the latter saving much time and the former would worry me with production issues. Do you guys satisfy RoHS requirements?

Yup, I pick up the part with one hand and place it with the other .

Every step on all of my boards is hand insertion. The boards are polarity coded for the film caps and they are tested when they come in and marked before they go into the binss.

RoHS yes, but waiting CE certification before I start shipping to the EU.

[glasman]

Do you PCB-based amp builders use a pick-and-place machine to stuff the boards or are you still stuffing the PCB's by hand? I can't see the latter saving much time and the former would worry me with production issues. Do you guys satisfy RoHS requirements?

FWIW, I have talked to three assembly shops here in the Phoenix area and they can do the auto-insertion and wave soldering etc etc. But they will not tackle component polarity so it will never be an option for me.

[Cliff Schecht]

Well alright, I guess I shouldn't give anyone a hard time about building their PCBs one by one. IMO that's the right way to do it anyways, that way you get the consistency of sound and sturdiness of a well designed PCB and the human factor and quality control from the handwork. Still all boutiquey while taking advantage of modern technology.

That probably isn't as much of a bitch as dealing with RoHS, CE and UL anyways.

FWIW I have considered taking various amp designs into production and would immediately go the PCB route myself. When done right the PCB really adds to the reliability of an amp (assuming the circuit is well designed and thought out).

Look at Peavey, most of the repairs I do on their stuff is not in any way caused by the PCB. Many times it makes it easier to repair their stuff. I just wished Fender would quit cheaping out and use through hole vias even on their cheap models!

[Gaz]

RoHS yes, but waiting CE certification before I start shipping to the EU.

Off topic, but so do you use lead-free solder then? Silver solder?

[vibratoking]

Yup, I pick up the part with one hand and place it with the other .

It's much more efficient if you place it with same hand that you used to pick it up.

RoHS yes, but waiting CE certification before I start shipping to the EU.

You could be waiting a long time in my experience. Usually the certification is not granted until the requisite amount of $$$ are spent.

[Structo]

I thought the CE marking was a self regulating type standard?

In other words you can claim CE classification and it better meet the specs.
But there is no institution that has to approve it.

At least that is what I read a couple years ago.

The CE-marking is the manufacturer's statement to the EU authorities that his product complies with all relevant CE-marking Directives. It is important to emphasise that the CE-marking is not a quality mark or a guarantee to consumers in EU.
The manufacturer is always responsible - within or outside EU - for CE-marking. If the manufacturer is not located in EU, he can authorise a representative located in EU who thus becomes responsible for CE-marking. The representative's duties and responsibilities must be agreed in writing. Importers not authorised by the manufacturer must keep his documentation in safekeeping in EU for ten years after the last production date. Please bear in mind, that the importer may always be held responsible for the documentation.

[vibratoking]

The rules regarding the CE mark are not that simple.

[glasman]

CE certification requires testing by an independant lab. Costs anywhere from 5K to 10K depending on the testing required.

[glasman]

RoHS yes, but waiting CE certification before I start shipping to the EU.

Off topic, but so do you use lead-free solder then? Silver solder?

We are testing lead free and silver solder on in house amps right now. All parts used are RoHS compliant and the solder is the last thing to cross over to to be fully compliant. This is the reason I have never pressed shipping amps to the EU.

[markusw]

CE certification requires testing by an independant lab. Costs anywhere from 5K to 10K depending on the testing required.

I guess you need to do these testings for each amp model you want to sell in the EU?

[wicker]

AFAIK, if all parts have CE certification, than the wole amp should have, but I'm not expert, all this CE just kills small manufactures.