to HRM or not

[dogears]

Carlos's main amp, the suede ODR, has been updated with HRM. So I am told from extremely inside sources.

Possibly Dumb question guys but, what type of D style amp is Carlos Santana playing these days? I realize he doesn't have quite the same sound as Larry or Robben. Given when he started using these amps I just assumed he was playing HRM styles.

I'm not sure I am hearing the M style or how did you put it Norm, monkeysound? Can we use Jim's last name here?

Anyway is Carlos just playing an 80's style amp, it just sounds closer to an older amp sound to me but it has been very casual listening, usually on the radio, not studio quality monitors comparing tones?


Thanks

[blinddog]

Thanks Scott.

just trying to get a better idea of the sounds.

My wife and I just had a bab 3 weeks ago. So with the sleep dep, I don't trust playing with a soldering iron anytime soon.

I have a Dlite I'm waiting to work on and I am getting Chassis and boards from Brandon, figuring that makes more sense to implement a HMR in Funk's.

[Funkalicousgroove]

It's set up and ready to go for HRM, are you getting the PCB's too? they make it a very smooth build.

[blinddog]

Yes sir Funk getting the boards too.

I emailed you regarding this when you posted the new run.

Looking forward to it.

Thanks,
Jim

[rutledj]

Hey funk. I ordered the boards this week. Forgot to ask if these are in stock or when they might ship.


Thanks
Rut

[Funkalicousgroove]

The PCB's are in stock, I'll ship everything monday.

[tonelab2]

Could someone with better eyesight than mine please check these photos(LC photo posted earlier) and give their opinion on the resistor values. Seems there's a mixture of 4 and 5 band. I suspect the OD trimmer is buried under the goo.

[dogears]

The resistors are standard Bluesmaster Dumble fair. Some are 6 band....

http://samengstrom.com/nxl/2020/6_band_ ... ge.en.html

9.09K, 511ohm, 4.7K tail, and 100K feedback. 25K presence pot and .1uf cap. .02uf caps and a 47pf snubber between the plates.

Also, the V2 tube looks to have the first triode grounded out by the shielded cable. My guess is no trimmer or the trimmer is now a pot on the front. 3 stages and not 4. Carlton likes it clean. The 68K grid is useless since the triode is not operational. All in my opinion.....

Could someone with better eyesight than mine please check these photos(LC photo posted earlier) and give their opinion on the resistor values. Seems there's a mixture of 4 and 5 band. I suspect the OD trimmer is buried under the goo.

[Funkalicousgroove]

Are you sure it's not still operational? It seems to me that it could be easily a 4 stage amp with the second tonestack between the triodes just like the first one.

[johan]

To HRM or not

I really liked Robben Ford tone on the Blue Line albums up until Handful of Blues. On the last couple of discs his dirty tone is buzzier and not as pleasant sounding.
Any of you know from listening to him what's been done to his 100W head over the years?

Thanks!

[chris_sanford]

Are you sure it's not still operational? It seems to me that it could be easily a 4 stage amp with the second tonestack between the triodes just like the first one.

Funk, I though that might be the case as well (4 stage od, but with the TS in the middle)... it's fairly easy to set up, just exchange the two OD coax cables on the other side of the board, along with flipping the od input wires. To my ears, the 3 stage setup sounded much better, but you may disagree. In any case, the ts must be very carefully dialed when you put it between the gain stages like that... or some horrendous sounds will ensue.

chris

[Funkalicousgroove]

I think (Personal opinion of course) that the amps used up to Handfull of blues were non-HRM, I think Tiger walk and Jing Chi are HRM, I think the tones on the Newest one TRUTH are VERY trebly, and it seems to have less mids, could possibly be a Bluesmaster, I'm fairly unimpressed with the latest tones/album. I also know that Robben sometimes records with Dumble's other than his own (Jackson Browne's for sure) so It's tough to say what amp is on what song. On the Keep on running disc the tone on Cannonball Shuffle is distinctly different from the rest of the album, but very reminiscent of his tone on "Politician." JMHO, take it with a grain!

[chris_sanford]

I think (Personal opinion of course) that the amps used up to Handfull of blues were non-HRM, I think Tiger walk and Jing Chi are HRM, I think the tones on the Newest one TRUTH are VERY trebly, and it seems to have less mids, could possibly be a Bluesmaster, I'm fairly unimpressed with the latest tones/album. I also know that Robben sometimes records with Dumble's other than his own (Jackson Browne's for sure) so It's tough to say what amp is on what song. On the Keep on running disc the tone on Cannonball Shuffle is distinctly different from the rest of the album, but very reminiscent of his tone on "Politician." JMHO, take it with a grain!

Brandon,

I'm with you for the most part (although I think *most* of Tiger Walk sounds like non-hrm). As far as how Robben's amp sounds now though, I couldn't agree more.. it's extremely bright. I just saw him last night (along with LC), and came away thinking that his amp didn't really sound like an HRM or an 80s style circuit, or even a Bluesmaster. Hmmm?

chris

[ayan]

I think (Personal opinion of course) that the amps used up to Handfull of blues were non-HRM, I think Tiger walk and Jing Chi are HRM, I think the tones on the Newest one TRUTH are VERY trebly, and it seems to have less mids, could possibly be a Bluesmaster, I'm fairly unimpressed with the latest tones/album. I also know that Robben sometimes records with Dumble's other than his own (Jackson Browne's for sure) so It's tough to say what amp is on what song. On the Keep on running disc the tone on Cannonball Shuffle is distinctly different from the rest of the album, but very reminiscent of his tone on "Politician." JMHO, take it with a grain!

For what it's worth, I totally agree with you. I used to see RF live a lot in the very early 90s, and his tone defintiely changed a few years after that. While it could be that his amp underwent the HRM transformation around that time, there was something else: RF dumped the reverb (PCM70, I believe, or some times a "Real Tube Reverb" rack unit) from his rack at that same time. That could certainly contribute to the harsher tone he's had since then.

Gil

[fabiomayo]

Also, the V2 tube looks to have the first triode grounded out by the shielded cable. My guess is no trimmer or the trimmer is now a pot on the front. 3 stages and not 4. Carlton likes it clean. The 68K grid is useless since the triode is not operational. All in my opinion.....

In that case, would the signal still go through the low gain coupling network (parallel 470k & 47pF into 200k and a 25k pot with 4k7 to ground) but then be directed to the OD2 through the grid resistor?

How do you think it would be setup without and OD input pot?

The third stage would be hardwired or switchable (as an OD)?

Thanks.