Ben Harper Dumble "Collection"

[CHIP]

It's like guitars too. take for instance Les Pauls, all made from same wood etc, but some are magical. And then the great guitarists usually have feelers out there and have access to the magic ones, but sometimes the average Joe gets lucky and finds one that slips through the cracks.

[dreric]

I took the statement about "he could never make 2 amps that sounded the same", as meaning if an artist liked an amp HAD built and went back later and said "build me another just like it" he couldn't do it.
Maybe I misunderstood the statement.

I don't think you misunderstood.

It's pretty well documented that HAD hasn't been able to clone HAD. That said, neither have Fender, Vox or Marshall been able to clone their classics.

Then........ there's the tubes!

Then......... there's listener / artist subjectively (where are you MAX? )

Personally I find acceptance with the belief that every tube amp is a snowflake.

I drank the Dumble Kool-Aid about 1995. For a long time I just wanted to get a Dumble. Through fortunate circumstances I had one 90 minute conversation with the man himself and lived with one of the amps for about two months. No matter how hard I tried I couldn't justify the (then) $18K price tag for a used amp. After that I became more interested in building / understanding, found TAG and have been content to putter away......

I've had a hundred or more conversations with guys who knew guys who had a friend who waited for an amp. Or with guys in the industry who have first or second hand knowledge of the man. The consistent things I've heard about HAD are:

1. HAD does what HAD wants to do.
2. HAD isn't motivated by what others think or what others want him to do.
3. HAD actively cultivates his "mythos" and celebrity.

I bring this up merely to point out that I think HAD would be more annoyed being asked to re-create an amp than he would be motivated.

Eric

[CHIP]

Yes Eric, That could very well be.

[talbany]

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0

This has been discussed here before...I thought everyone here (including Pro builders) agreed that it was virtually impossible to build 2 ODS's exactly dead on alike, especially after 1 has quite a bit of time on it..Dumble used iron and pots off used Fender amps in the early days so you think they are going to sound different.. if you hand a player with decent ears 2 amps built from the same parts around the same time. built the same way he will pick 1 out of the 2 he likes (for whatever reason)..That amp will always be better and the other inferior to him..Same with guitars..


Tony

[FUCHSAUDIO]

I suspect part of his madness is the expectation he will top his prior efforts with each new build. That was to weigh on someone emotionally and eventually affect you.

I have a number of artists who have particular amps of mine that say "that one is absolutely special". "X guitarist begged me to sell him that amp, because it did things others didn't..." and the weird part is they were not that different in execution, iron, or tube compliment...it's frustrating at times. No different than guitars, absolutely. I don't deny I hear it, I wish I could quantify it..

[FUCHSAUDIO]

I suspect part of his madness is the expectation he will top his prior efforts with each new build. That was to weigh on someone emotionally and eventually affect you.

I have a number of artists who have particular amps of mine that say "that one is absolutely special". One endorser told me "X guitarist begged me to sell him that amp, because it did things others didn't..." and the weird part is they were not that different in execution, iron, or tube compliment...it's frustrating at times. No different than guitars, absolutely. I don't deny I hear it, I wish I could quantify it..

[wjdunham]

I suspect part of his madness is the expectation he will top his prior efforts with each new build. That was to weigh on someone emotionally and eventually affect you.

I have a number of artists who have particular amps of mine that say "that one is absolutely special". "X guitarist begged me to sell him that amp, because it did things others didn't..." and the weird part is they were not that different in execution, iron, or tube compliment...it's frustrating at times. No different than guitars, absolutely. I don't deny I hear it, I wish I could quantify it..

I'm a little surprised that I don't see more about this, and maybe I'm out in the weeds - but given just how sensitive the human ear is to the "smallest" variances in the frequency content of a signal it's no surprise that it's nearly impossible to create two amps that one perceives to be identical. Millions of years of evolution have gone in to allowing our ears to differentiate human voices, and an amp is no different. Point being, it doesn't take very much difference at all, and whatever it is in the balance that we decide we like or don't like is more a result of evolution than physics. Stating the obvious here maybe?
Bill

[dreric]

I'm a little surprised that I don't see more about this, and maybe I'm out in the weeds - but given just how sensitive the human ear is to the "smallest" variances in the frequency content of a signal it's no surprise that it's nearly impossible to create two amps that one perceives to be identical. Millions of years of evolution have gone in to allowing our ears to differentiate human voices, and an amp is no different. Point being, it doesn't take very much difference at all, and whatever it is in the balance that we decide we like or don't like is more a result of evolution than physics. Stating the obvious here maybe?
Bill

Well said, and it's not just amps.

I used to play in a dinky band, just covers etc. Our bass player was the son of a rather famous rock star. We played a lot of parties. I noticed that when the host knew he was "the son of" and introduced us as such the gratitude for our effort was far greater if we were introduced without any affiliation.

There is also power of endorsement. Where would the Strat / Marshall be without Hendrix etc etc.?

Scarcity is the other "magical" tone secret.

Personally, I think the the power of endorsement, affiliation and perceived scarcity (of the instrument) has as much to do with the listeners perception of the sound as the player / listener.

Eric

[ER]

From a players point of view all that matters is the ability to translate what they hear in their head into sound. Tone, control, reliability and playability are all important. Have you ever had a great sounding guitar that wouldn't stay in tune or was a pain to play?

I had an old mahogany '29 gibson LO that sounded like heaven but I'm more of an electric player in my head and I was afraid my kids would knock it over or something so it went to another home.

If you're trying to find that grail, it makes total sense to build one amp at a time for a particular artist, and have some inherent flexibility to the sound and design for tweaking/evolution so you don't end up with a one trick pony amp.

The constants seem to be note definition, a broader tonal spectrum, and the ability to retain each guitars individual characteristics. Those are always good.

Having a humbucker sound good and single coils sound bad and visa versa is preferable to not being able to tell the difference.

Everything is compromise really, you can't win the war in one shot but if you can win the occasional battle you're doing just fine.

-E

[talbany]

Personally, I think the the power of endorsement, affiliation and perceived scarcity (of the instrument) has as much to do with the listeners perception of the sound as the player / listener.

In the ears of the guitar player mass populous..this is so TRUE!!

I suspect part of his madness is the expectation he will top his prior efforts with each new build. That was to weigh on someone emotionally and eventually affect you.

I call it Improv amp building..If your a perfectionist and go into amp building..Hire a good Psychiatrist...If your a perfectionist building D-Clones..Take the Pills..

Tony

[stelligan]

Personally I find acceptance with the belief that every tube amp is a snowflake.

Eric

Indeed. Very interesting side track on this thread.

The sum of all the parts is sometimes greater, sometimes less.........
I would think that the ability to discern what to leave alone and what to improve upon separates the men from the boys.
Boy child here

[andyhardy]

Just Remember

[Structo]

Ha!
I have that same picture on a wall in my guitar room.

[backpack]

I know with motors you may build two motors the exact same with parts built in the same lot, with much different results. I suspect even small
variances in windings and tolerances are the same way. Does one more or less rap in a transformer realy ever show up on a meter? Things can
only ever be measuared so closely before the tool used to measure has to be questioned. Magick or not somone always wants it to be.