Amp Porn

[ayan]

Here are a few more of the Low Plate Classic..Really beginning to warm up to this amp

Tony

Looking great, like always, Tony! Quick question, why the CF pre OD resistors on the Classic?

Hope al is well,

G.

[talbany]

Here are a few more of the Low Plate Classic..Really beginning to warm up to this amp

Tony

Looking great, like always, Tony! Quick question, why the CF pre OD resistors on the Classic?

Hope al is well,

G.

Hey Gil
Are you talking about the OD entrance resistors? or ?

Tony

[ayan]

Here are a few more of the Low Plate Classic..Really beginning to warm up to this amp

Tony

Looking great, like always, Tony! Quick question, why the CF pre OD resistors on the Classic?

Hope al is well,

G.

Hey Gil
Are you talking about the OD entrance resistors? or ?

Tony

Yes I am.

G.

[talbany]

Looking great, like always, Tony! Quick question, why the CF pre OD resistors on the Classic?

Hope al is well,

G.

Hey Gil
Are you talking about the OD entrance resistors? or ?

Tony

Yes I am.

G.

Ok!
The Classic was kind of a Mutt going in,basically from parts left over from the Music man build. As I was building it several members sent me some Q-lines to try However I was not able to find a 220K so I found the Allen Bradley CC's to be a similar sounding resistor. If I ever run across one I will pull the Bradley's..What I found is the Q-lines add a unique slightly more aggressive texture to the quality of the breakup in the OD sections vs the Phiers or Iskra's which seem to be smoother and less textured ...So if smooth is your thing they are great!
So the end goal was to see how close I could come to an original and to see how the Q-lines affected the overall sound of the amp and compare them to some other resistors I've tried..Also I kind of want each of my amp's to sound a little different anyway..BTW.Are you a fan of the Classic?

Resistor Mafia
Tony

[ayan]

Ok!
The Classic was kind of a Mutt going in,basically from parts left over from the Music man build. As I was building it several members sent me some Q-lines to try However I was not able to find a 220K so I found the Allen Bradley CC's to be a similar sounding resistor. If I ever run across one I will pull the Bradley's..What I found is the Q-lines add a unique slightly more aggressive texture to the quality of the breakup in the OD sections vs the Phiers or Iskra's which seem to be smoother and less textured ...So if smooth is your thing they are great!
So the end goal was to see how close I could come to an original and to see how the Q-lines affected the overall sound of the amp and compare them to some other resistors I've tried..Also I kind of want each of my amp's to sound a little different anyway..BTW.Are you a fan of the Classic?

Resistor Mafia
Tony

Ha ha, I see Sicily's "Don Antonio" is back, good! I was a fan of the Classic for the longest time. First type I ever built, and I found that the balance between clean, OD and PAB worked great. The PAB thing because the Classic is not as fat sounding to begin with -- unlike the Skyliner. I still think the Classic is probably the best match for a Strat or a Gibson played on the rhythm pickup. But then I got used to the Skyliner and the rest is history. Keeping the bass low on the Skyliner gets a sound that works good enough for me with Strats and neck humbuckers.

Hard to believe it will soon be one entire year since I fired either one of my amps.

G.

[talbany]

Gil

The PAB thing because the Classic is not as fat sounding to begin with -- unlike the Skyliner. I still think the Classic is probably the best match for a Strat or a Gibson played on the rhythm pickup. But then I got used to the Skyliner and the rest is history.

Thanks for your opinion on the Classic!
I had a similar issue with the mids! A friend of mine gave me a quad of closely matched RCA Black Plates I was all excited to use them in the Classic when I finished it thinking it would be a good match,However, after playing it for a few days the mids didn't have that fat clear sound you mention and the OD was worse! So I ended up pulling them and going with a quad of Big Bottle Sylvanias to help clear and push the mids forward..It's still not a Skyliner but it's an improvement over the Black Plates..The other alternative would be a 715 mid cap and up the bypass caps,although AFAIK Dumble never changed the mid cap types in his Classics..I know It's tough to get off the Skyliner habit

Man it's been a year already? Well if you can't play em you can always come here and talk about em

Tony

[ayan]

Gil

Thanks for your opinion on the Classic!
I had a similar issue with the mids! A friend of mine gave me a quad of closely matched RCA Black Plates I was all excited to use them in the Classic when I finished it thinking it would be a good match,However, after playing it for a few days the mids didn't have that fat clear sound you mention and the OD was worse! So I ended up pulling them and going with a quad of Big Bottle Sylvanias to help clear and push the mids forward..It's still not a Skyliner but it's an improvement over the Black Plates..The other alternative would be a 715 mid cap and up the bypass caps,although AFAIK Dumble never changed the mid cap types in his Classics..I know It's tough to get off the Skyliner habit

Man it's been a year already? Well if you can't play em you can always come here and talk about em

Tony

I just looked at my calendar... my last gig was on February 22nd, 2020. Had a rehearsal on March 8th, where I used a backline amp. Our March 14th gig was cancelled as all hell broke loose here in California on Friday the 13th. So yes, over a year now. And indeed, I am here to talk about it.

[norburybrook]

Gil

Thanks for your opinion on the Classic!
I had a similar issue with the mids! A friend of mine gave me a quad of closely matched RCA Black Plates I was all excited to use them in the Classic when I finished it thinking it would be a good match,However, after playing it for a few days the mids didn't have that fat clear sound you mention and the OD was worse! So I ended up pulling them and going with a quad of Big Bottle Sylvanias to help clear and push the mids forward..It's still not a Skyliner but it's an improvement over the Black Plates..The other alternative would be a 715 mid cap and up the bypass caps,although AFAIK Dumble never changed the mid cap types in his Classics..I know It's tough to get off the Skyliner habit

Man it's been a year already? Well if you can't play em you can always come here and talk about em

Tony

I just looked at my calendar... my last gig was on February 22nd, 2020. Had a rehearsal on March 8th, where I used a backline amp. Our March 14th gig was cancelled as all hell broke loose here in California on Friday the 13th. So yes, over a year now. And indeed, I am here to talk about it.

more or less the same for me I got 2 days into a 40 date tour in March and then boooooom everything shut down. Fortunately I've been able to fire up my amps as studio work has continued with on line and remote sessions etc I have dates in the diary for live work starting in July...lets see how that goes....these are posponed dates from March 2019 ..incredible...first time in over 40 years I haven't gigged in a year.

I think there will be some rusty chops when we get back going again....even with practicing you don't have the intensity and stamina needed when gigging .

M

[ayan]

more or less the same for me I got 2 days into a 40 date tour in March and then boooooom everything shut down. Fortunately I've been able to fire up my amps as studio work has continued with on line and remote sessions etc I have dates in the diary for live work starting in July...lets see how that goes....these are posponed dates from March 2019 ..incredible...first time in over 40 years I haven't gigged in a year.

I think there will be some rusty chops when we get back going again....even with practicing you don't have the intensity and stamina needed when gigging .

M

I hear you, Marcus. What I did was sign up for lessons that started back in March, just before this whole covid thing. Couldn't be happier, I've been learning a ton and my chops are way up. All dressed up and nowhere to go, though.

G.

[talbany]

Gil
I know you guy's in Cal got hit hard with all the restaurant shutdowns...I just hope these clubs/bars can survive through it?.. I have quite a few friends who play Nationally Out of Nashville who say the same thing about a year for them as well..Lets hope everyone can hold out long enough so when this bad dream is over we have venues to go back too

luckily The music store I teach is still open so I am forced to play 3 days a week..Gotta fire up the amps more at home though..Chops are still hangin around

https://www.mechanicsvillemusic.com/

Tony

[ayan]

Gil
I know you guy's in Cal got hit hard with all the restaurant shutdowns...I just hope these clubs/bars can survive through it?.. I have quite a few friends who play Nationally Out of Nashville who say the same thing about a year for them as well..Lets hope everyone can hold out long enough so when this bad dream is over we have venues to go back too

luckily The music store I teach is still open so I am forced to play 3 days a week..Gotta fire up the amps more at home though..Chops are still hangin around

https://www.mechanicsvillemusic.com/

Tony

Keeping my fingers crossed for all of us throughout the world, brother. Not sure what the scene will look like when all is said and done here in CA, though. Glad you're still teaching, for both your sake and your students'! Yo go, Don Antonio!

G.

[donvan]

Keeping the bass low on the Skyliner gets a sound that works good enough for me with Strats and neck humbuckers.

Gil,
Based on previous threads I believe you are referring to OD mode when you say you keep the bass low on Skyliner. I have found that works for me.
My only dilemma is that I sometimes I would like a little more bass in clean mode. It seems like a possible solution would be to cut the lows some in the OD circuit. Have you done any experimenting with that or would that just mess you up your tone when playing on bridge humbuckers?

Thanks,
Don

[Smitty]

Look at the pics of the amp I posted. I've replaced the wire from the relay board to the preamp board heading to OD1 with an .022 cap. That cuts some bass in OD without attenuating the bass on the clean channel. I forget who suggested this mod, but I picked it up here on the forum. Might have been Gil or Tony. I forget who but I really like it.

[ayan]

Keeping the bass low on the Skyliner gets a sound that works good enough for me with Strats and neck humbuckers.

Gil,
Based on previous threads I believe you are referring to OD mode when you say you keep the bass low on Skyliner. I have found that works for me.
My only dilemma is that I sometimes I would like a little more bass in clean mode. It seems like a possible solution would be to cut the lows some in the OD circuit. Have you done any experimenting with that or would that just mess you up your tone when playing on bridge humbuckers?

Thanks,
Don

Hi Don. I was actually thinking less bass in general with a Skyliner. It helps the OD, if you're after a "prettier" kind of sound, and it helps with a band live -- at least in my case. Also, the balance between non PAB and PAB is "better." You can totally add an extra cap before the 220K resistor that feeds the 100K trimmer, only affecting the overdrive path. I used that for a long time but then ditched it. As you suggest, it helped with the Strat and neck humbucker, but it was not ideal for a bridge humbucker. You can put all kinds of mods on manual switches or relays, like the "bright on clean only mod," but then the amps start being more like a Mesa Boogie Mark IV. I prefer simplicity.

At the end of the day, I believe the ODS circuits well really well when you have the right components -- for a particular amp -- in place. You don't need to do that to possibly have a very good sounding amp right out of the gate, but I would always find myself looking for band aids to help with the OD being to bassy, or too harsh in the highs, or the clean being too dull. After I gutted and rebuilt my two amps (both non HRM Skyliners, one low plate and one high plate) with help from Tony and Jelle, I finally felt my amps were "right." I wrote a couple of threads back in the summer of 2019 documenting what I did and my impressions as I was replacing parts. Again, I'm not suggesting anyone has to go through all of that. It was a lot of work, maybe even more work that building the amp in the first place. And, gutting an amp carries some risk since one can easily mess up something in the process. In my case, I remember I changed the 22 Meg resistors on the PAB relay board and then one of the the amps worked intermittently because I had messed the solder that connects the eyelets to the PCB traces at the bottom of the PAB board. It was hard to spot that and of course it meant that I had to pull out the PAB board, which is buried under the front panel switches. When I fixed that, I think I messed up the relay socket and had to get another one in. Between this and that, replacing two resistors cost me like 4 hours worth of work...

G.

[donvan]

... but I would always find myself looking for band aids to help with the OD being to bassy, or too harsh in the highs, or the clean being too dull. After I gutted and rebuilt my two amps (both non HRM Skyliners, one low plate and one high plate) with help from Tony and Jelle, I finally felt my amps were "right."

Thanks for the responses Smitty and Gil.

I've been resisting it but I think it's time to take a closer look at component types.