EL34s for a Dumble. What is the smoothest and sweetest NOS?

[Chad]

I think the age thing is a bit over rated. personally I have had many amps that I used for long periods of time, then played others that were brand new, and sure, the older one feels a little squishier, but the tones are right in the ballpark. As a matter of fact, many times older amps even after being serviced can just sound old and kind of tired. Many times newer amps just sound fresher. The amp I am helping with will sound dead on with my 80s, and be brand new. If it does not, the amp and project will be scrapped. I think it can easily be done, and its an excuse guys use for not getting the tone correct in the first place.

As has been said before and in other post: components (resistors,caps,several other things) seem to differ in tolerance when age and heat is involve.So if that is the case would said amp be scraped 20,30 50 hours down the line if the sound is different?

Hey Chad, no idea. I will give an example though. I have a HR Deville that sounds fantastic and I bought when they first came out years and years ago. Playing a buddies new one, there is very little difference between them. Not anymore than you would hear between 2 different new ones at the store for the most part, and thats INCLUDING speaker wear! This has happened to me with several amps including bassmans, Boogies, Marshalls and others. Some do seem to vary more than others, but my guy feeling is that when those same amps were new, they would have sounded pretty different as well. I KNOW things wear out and sound different, but IMO, just not as much as some people feel they do, or, my experiences just happen to be different.

But IF it did change in tone what would become of it. I am not an expert on the subject of the aging of amps or the difference the sound it can (or would ) make .So just interested.

[Tag]

But IF it did change in tone what would become of it. I am not an expert on the subject of the aging of amps or the difference the sound it can (or would ) make .So just interested.[/quote]

I have never experienced it, so as I said, I do not believe it actually happens unless something is really out of whack. I think it is an excuse many cloners use when they cant nail a specific tone. "It must be the age".

[Chad]

Uh... OK...

[talbany]

But IF it did change in tone what would become of it. I am not an expert on the subject of the aging of amps or the difference the sound it can (or would ) make .So just interested.

I have never experienced it, so as I said, I do not believe it actually happens unless something is really out of whack. I think it is an excuse many cloners use when they cant nail a specific tone. "It must be the age". :roll:

[/quote]

Tag
How much of an influence on the tone of your Dumble has to do with seasoned Iron.. Aged caps..Resistor drift.. Any Idea.. a little allot..Educate me..


Tony

[Tag]

Tag
How much of an influence on the tone of your Dumble has to do with seasoned Iron.. Aged caps..Resistor drift.. Any Idea.. a little allot..Educate me.. I don't know a thing about amplifiers,,


Tony
[/quote]



From an early clip I heard, it sounded the same. Hope that helps.

[talbany]

Tag

I am talking about when the Dumble was new or fairly new.. not a few clips ago!!
What year is the amp?

Tony

[Tag]

Tag

I am talking about when the Dumble was new or fairly new.. not a few clips ago!!
What year is the amp?

Tony

Built between 84 and 89. Delivered new in 89.

So am I. I have only heard one clip of the amp from way back, and it sounded the same to me. I also have clips of my old marshalls over 15 year periods of time, and they sound the same from when I got them, to when i sold them. Only tube and bias changes along the way. Same with a mesa MK 3 and IV, and Music man. Also had a fender Bandmaster for years and years. Judging by clips, the amp sounded pretty much the same the entire time. Same with my HR Devill I STILL have. Drag over a new one and pit it next to mine. they sound almost dead on. Unless something is out of whack, the only differnce I find is older amps feel mushier sometimes, and usually not in a good way. That is USUALLY with combos, and I would suspect its speakers just getting worn out.

[talbany]

Tag

I am talking about when the Dumble was new or fairly new.. not a few clips ago!!
What year is the amp?

Tony

Built between 84 and 89. Delivered new in 89.

So am I. :) I have only heard one clip of the amp from way back, and it sounded the same to me. I also have clips of my old marshalls over 15 year periods of time, and they sound the same from when I got them, to when i sold them. Only tube and bias changes along the way. Same with a mesa MK 3 and IV, and Music man. Also had a fender Bandmaster for years and years. Judging by clips, the amp sounded pretty much the same the entire time. Same with my HR Devill I STILL have. Drag over a new one and pit it next to mine. they sound almost dead on. Unless something is out of whack, the only differnce I find is older amps feel mushier sometimes, and usually not in a good way. That is USUALLY with combos, and I would suspect its speakers just getting worn out.

So you don't think there is a noticable difference in tone and feel of a 20 year old amp than one just built...


Tony

[JimiB]

tin ears

[Structo]

I'm no expert on aging components but I can tell as the tubes age they start to lose that top end sparkle or brilliance.
It happens so slowly we often are not aware of it because we simply adjust our tone controls to compensate.
But when you finally replace them, whoa there it is, nice and sparkly.

[llemtt]

I can think of at least 3 things that surely "age" in a tube amp:

- ceramic caps (excluding class 1)
- electrolytic caps
- tubes

With more than 20 years since it has been built the cathode bypass and power supply electrolytic caps are entering their "end of life" period -> usually they loose more than 10% of their nominal capacitance so now there should be a subtle but audible difference between new and "aged".

But I guess that retubing your amp will have the greatest impact on how it sounds -> maybe it will loose all it's magic...

[bluesfendermanblues]

I can think of at least 3 things that surely "age" in a tube amp:

- ceramic caps (excluding class 1)
- electrolytic caps
- tubes

With more than 20 years since it has been built the cathode bypass and power supply electrolytic caps are entering their "end of life" period -> usually they loose more than 10% of their nominal capacitance so now there should be a subtle but audible difference between new and "aged".

But I guess that retubing your amp will have the greatest impact on how it sounds -> maybe it will loose all it's magic...

Don't forget carbon resistors, the also dift over time increasing in value.

[M Fowler]

Sums it all up rather nicely I think and thats why were doing the building and not TAG.

Of course age plays a part on the amps tone and also the age/quality of the guitar one is playing too.

Tag is either immature or oblivious.

[Tag]

Tag

I am talking about when the Dumble was new or fairly new.. not a few clips ago!!
What year is the amp?

Tony

Built between 84 and 89. Delivered new in 89.

So am I. I have only heard one clip of the amp from way back, and it sounded the same to me. I also have clips of my old marshalls over 15 year periods of time, and they sound the same from when I got them, to when i sold them. Only tube and bias changes along the way. Same with a mesa MK 3 and IV, and Music man. Also had a fender Bandmaster for years and years. Judging by clips, the amp sounded pretty much the same the entire time. Same with my HR Devill I STILL have. Drag over a new one and pit it next to mine. they sound almost dead on. Unless something is out of whack, the only differnce I find is older amps feel mushier sometimes, and usually not in a good way. That is USUALLY with combos, and I would suspect its speakers just getting worn out.

So you don't think there is a noticable difference in tone and feel of a 20 year old amp than one just built...


Tony

Minimal. Are you in NJ?? bring over a new HR Deville and put it next to my old one, see what you think. Really no more difference than you would get between 2 different new amps, and its a combo with speakers, so we are talking that as well! My Buddy has a new one, and we do it often. His actually sounds slightly better than mine, but most likely just because it would have sounded better when they were both new as well.

[Tag]

I'm no expert on aging components but I can tell as the tubes age they start to lose that top end sparkle or brilliance.
It happens so slowly we often are not aware of it because we simply adjust our tone controls to compensate.
But when you finally replace them, whoa there it is, nice and sparkly.

Yes, I agree with this over a long time, but as I said, I have always done regular maintenance.