Seriously though, I used some funky looking black resistors on my #183 build- HolCo's that amp sounded very smoooooooth and they look great on the board.
IMG_20190124_154013-01.jpeg
Worth a try I'd say too if you want to smooth an amp out. It was a bit smooth for me so I sold it but I'm confident we can put HolCo's in the Smooth sounding camp.
M
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
norburybrook wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:00 am
go to bed!!!!
Seriously though, I used some funky looking black resistors on my #183 build- HolCo's that amp sounded very smoooooooth and they look great on the board.
IMG_20190124_154013-01.jpeg
Worth a try I'd say too if you want to smooth an amp out. It was a bit smooth for me so I sold it but I'm confident we can put HolCo's in the Smooth sounding camp.
M
M
I just woke up
The trick for me is to keep the amp bright and articulate full of harmonics and musical sounding and axe any of the harsh-ness. Like 102 that's a bright amp and not at all harsh! I have heard good things from the Holocos and absolutely there is such a thing as an amp that is too smooth. A great amp IMO responds the more you dig in the more aggressive the sound gets while keeping the amp bright and lively. Another elusive quality that can be a challenge IMO
BTW. Dumble amps by nature are a little on the bright side.The general rule is if it's a little bright from where you are on stage it's usually perfect for those out front. This obviously applies for the smaller venues.
Nice Build! 183 was not really considered a smooth amp. IMO Dumble purposely voiced that amp to be an aggressive rock monster. (with little to no harsh-ness)
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
It's funny none of my ODS amp's I've built would I ever describe as bright. I wonder why? I'm comparing now to all the trainwrecks I've built which I\ would describe as definitely Bright, that's why I like to combine an ODS with a wreck.
I would say the clean on the amps except for the bluesmaster is very Fender like and I wouldn't class them as bright compared to wrecks for example again.
I'm curious now...any ideas? the #183 with the HolCo's I would use the bright switch it was that smoooth!
norburybrook wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:17 am
Tony,
It's funny none of my ODS amp's I've built would I ever describe as bright. I wonder why? I'm comparing now to all the trainwrecks I've built which I\ would describe as definitely Bright, that's why I like to combine an ODS with a wreck.
I would say the clean on the amps except for the bluesmaster is very Fender like and I wouldn't class them as bright compared to wrecks for example again.
I'm curious now...any ideas? the #183 with the HolCo's I would use the bright switch it was that smoooth!
M
Another good question!. It's hard to say being that I have not heard your amps so Ill'' speculate and tell you my experience and yes the TW amps are a bright amp for sure!
So there are 2 different schools of thought surrounding this. The 1st being we don't use the same parts as Dumble did. I will revert you to Gil's resistor thread where he mentions where one of the things he noticed when he did his make-over was the amp instantly got brighter. part of this was due to the mid-cap change. I also noticed my amps got much brighter when I switched to the older CTS pots. These to me have more bass and more treble. The other and most common being is an amp like the ODS where you have a clean and an OD we tend to want to set the amp to the OD side of the Non HRM amps. . We tend to do this to try and mask or cover up any of the harsh overtones the OD side has. So when we go back to the clean side it tends to be a little too dark sounding. In reality, it should be the other way around where you set the clean as bright as you like and when you go to the OD side it should be fairly transparent but with more gain more sustain and all the appealing qualities, we get from the added gain structure. Depending on where you set the gain and In a perfectly voiced ODS the OD side should if anything get a little darker. If you go back and listen to my clip you will hear my OD side is a little flatter than my clean side so the transient response of the amp drops (compresses) a little which is what you want. In reality, it comes down to if you start from a platform that is free from any harsh overtones generated by any unwanted distortions or transients caused by the resistors (for whatever reason) then you are free to set the amp as bright as you like and still have it sound musical. This is the main challenge when building these amps and is the thing most builders here struggle with and is the thing Dumble was able to achieve due mainly to the parts he selected. This is just my opinion and from my experience tweaking and trying new and different parts. If I could find newer parts that achieve the same goal. Bring em on
I am tired now.
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
pompeiisneaks wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:20 am
That's true, but he also used a looper to replay the exact same phrasing, pick attack, bending etc, so it was 100% cloned performance.
~Phil
I must agree to disagree. First pass amp informs first pass playing.....
If indeed he played the loop and recorded it with original resistors live - he was "playing" those resistors. Not playing the second set - that is my point. If indeed, he was live with his guitar in the same room with the speaker, even more so. First resistors benefit from being "played".
I get it, but scientifically if he'd played on both separately he could have let the difference of the amp make him play differently, in theory, which means it's less scientific. Or his confirmation bias may have also made him play differently. The point is to listen to two as nearly identical sounding samples as possible, removing the human element.
How does the AMP itself impact the tone, and in this case, how did the change in resistors impact it.
pompeiisneaks wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:20 am
That's true, but he also used a looper to replay the exact same phrasing, pick attack, bending etc, so it was 100% cloned performance.
~Phil
I must agree to disagree. First pass amp informs first pass playing.....
If indeed he played the loop and recorded it with original resistors live - he was "playing" those resistors. Not playing the second set - that is my point. If indeed, he was live with his guitar in the same room with the speaker, even more so. First resistors benefit from being "played".
I get it, but scientifically if he'd played on both separately he could have let the difference of the amp make him play differently, in theory, which means it's less scientific. Or his confirmation bias may have also made him play differently. The point is to listen to two as nearly identical sounding samples as possible, removing the human element.
How does the AMP itself impact the tone, and in this case, how did the change in resistors impact it.
~Phil
I would hope that Erwin played the loop in and then recorded the output (without him actually playing) for his dale new file. Then replace the resistors and hit the looper again and record for dale NOS file.
The issue with my test was I played a before and after which were NOT the same so it was impossible to objective about it.
He would have to play through the looper, then run the loop through again with the original resistors to make the baseline recording. Finally, change the resistors and then run the looper again to make the second recording.
martin manning wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:53 pm
He would have to play through the looper, then run the loop through again with the original resistors to make the baseline recording. Finally, change the resistors and then run the looper again to make the second recording.
Isn't that exactly what he said he did?
He basically explained this in the first post, and I took him to mean he did exactly that, he recorded it with a looper so he could play it and record it identically in both cases, the looper playback was used in both recordings.
martin manning wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:53 pm
He would have to play through the looper, then run the loop through again with the original resistors to make the baseline recording. Finally, change the resistors and then run the looper again to make the second recording.
Isn't that exactly what he said he did?
He basically explained this in the first post, and I took him to mean he did exactly that, he recorded it with a looper so he could play it and record it identically in both cases, the looper playback was used in both recordings.
~Phil
This is how I understood it
Quote from Erwin: "The looper was played thru the amp before and after. So guitar taken by the looper and later recorded in the before and after setting."
martin manning wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:53 pm
He would have to play through the looper, then run the loop through again with the original resistors to make the baseline recording. Finally, change the resistors and then run the looper again to make the second recording.
Isn't that exactly what he said he did?
He basically explained this in the first post, and I took him to mean he did exactly that, he recorded it with a looper so he could play it and record it identically in both cases, the looper playback was used in both recordings.
~Phil
Yes, i'm not sure where we've got sidetracked on this
The poll allowed up to two votes per person, but that wasn't spelled out.
So:
1. Those who did not hear a difference would most likely use one vote.
2. Those who heard a difference, but did not prefer one over the other could have used one vote.
3. Those who heard a difference and preferred one or the other might have used only one vote, for the one they liked best.
4. Those who heard a difference and had a preference could have used two votes, voting for "I heard a difference," and also voting for the one they liked best.
IMO it would have been better to allow only one vote.
I agree with Martin, so I created a new poll thread, just for voting on a single vote. You choose either 'cant' tell difference, can tell but don't prefer, or prefer 1, or prefer 2'
Everyone revote how you felt when you heard the clips
that amp sounded very smoooooooth and they look great on the board. 
(with little to no harsh-ness)
