EL34s for a Dumble. What is the smoothest and sweetest NOS?

[David Root]

Tony, wouldn't a NOS 6CA7 fit your bill? Nominally an EL34 but a beam tetrode so in between 6L6GC and EL34. No doubt much cheaper than NOS EL34 too.

[Structo]

He said earlier this year.

I for one would love to see some pictures of your amp 59Pro.

Not that I doubt you, just like to see what HAD is building these days.

[Tag]

IMHO.. In my travels through this topology I've been able to get the smoothest tone by going with a nice big bottle 6L..Something stout with some headroom.. Like the Sylvania 6L GC... Something that doesn't break up quite as easy.. As most 34's begin to break they can get crunchy on you.. Keep the output section clean and bold and get that smooth preamp breakup that's when it's the smoothest to me...(This is all of coarse how loud you run it as well) If smooth is your main concern and you like to push the output section EL-34's not my first choice for smooth IMHO...
.KT-77 nice tube in these amps JJ makes a decent one...Just watch as they can get noisy and go micro phonic on you as I've had a few go...


Tony

Generally I agree with you, but with Dumbles, EL34s have been by FAR smoother than the 4 6L6 versions I have played. Clones seem to go the other way. When is someone going to get the clone thing RIGHT????

Maybe prettyy soon actually, Stay tuned!

[Tag]

Hi Tag,
I just took delivery of my Dumble amp from Alexander, which I ordered earlier this year. My amp is a 6V6 amp, my favorite power tube. I supplied NOS tubes and like them a lot. However Alexander told me that he likes JJ tubes and I might wanna try them. Maybe you wanna try them as well, they make EL 34s. Since they are not to expensive it's always worth a try.

Hey Thanks man!!! Thats a must try then! Any chance you could post some clips of your amp? I would LOVE to hear it! Mine has by far the best overdriven tones I have heard, and its an 89. I am sure Dumble can do far better now! The man is incredible! Lucky you!!

[59Pro]

I for one would love to see some pictures of your amp 59Pro.
Not that I doubt you, just like to see what HAD is building these days.

Mine is built into a Fender BF Deluxe combo. I could post a picture, but you will see just a 1964 Fender combo. The inside of course is all Dumble, all new components. I had several discussions with Alexander to define what I really want and need. He clearly exceeded my expectations.

just like to see what HAD is building these days

According to Alexander he delivered a new ODS before mine was finished.

[talbany]

When is someone going to get the clone thing RIGHT????

Tag with all due respect comparing a new amp( or one a few years old) to one that has 20 or so years on it...Not really a fair comparison..
of coarse they are going to be very different.. Especially when your talking about smooth......Age noticeably changes tone feel and character of an amp.. I can tell a difference when I use used 20 year old Fender Iron..I'll bet if you play some of the fine Dumble style amps built by some killer builders here give it some time I'll bet you'll have a different opinion..


Tony

[dr. who]

What % of Dr. D's amps were built with aged iron?

[Zippy]

What is "believed" to be the issue of aged iron?

Seems to me that one way of replicating it is to artificially exercise the magnetic domains. One could put iron cores in an alternating magnetic field and overdrive them in terms of both frequency and field intensity - compared to "normal" aging.

All you need is an electromagnet with a large gap to fit the transformer cores and a variable frequency source of sufficiently high power - nothing hard to build for people such as those here.

[talbany]

Guy's I wasn't making reference to just the iron... Tag made a comment about how some of the clones he's played doesn't seem to sound quite like or stand up to his Dumble to his ears.. I was just stating the obvious that an amp that has some age on it... Caps Transformers EVERYTHING... is not really a fair comparison to newer one..Gee I wonder why my 10-15 year old amp is smoother and sounds better than a newer replica to me.. Ah!! DAH!!...Some like older broken in iron some don't...


Tony VVT

[llemtt]

What is "believed" to be the issue of aged iron?

+1

very good question, maybe we should start a dedicated thread

just another question is: do HAD "tweaks" output trafos? or maybe he goes through some "selection" process to find exactly the ones he wants?

teo

[jelle]

I guess the questions are then: whatc are the criteria for Primary coil inductance, Secondary coil inductance and capacitance?

Then what happens when a transformer ages?

[Tag]

When is someone going to get the clone thing RIGHT????

Tag with all due respect comparing a new amp( or one a few years old) to one that has 20 or so years on it...Not really a fair comparison..
of coarse they are going to be very different.. Especially when your talking about smooth......Age noticeably changes tone feel and character of an amp.. I can tell a difference when I use used 20 year old Fender Iron..I'll bet if you play some of the fine Dumble style amps built by some killer builders here give it some time I'll bet you'll have a different opinion..


Tony

I think the age thing is a bit over rated. personally I have had many amps that I used for long periods of time, then played others that were brand new, and sure, the older one feels a little squishier, but the tones are right in the ballpark. As a matter of fact, many times older amps even after being serviced can just sound old and kind of tired. Many times newer amps just sound fresher. The amp I am helping with will sound dead on with my 80s, and be brand new. If it does not, the amp and project will be scrapped. I think it can easily be done, and its an excuse guys use for not getting the tone correct in the first place.

[dartanion]

The JJ6V6S is not really a 6v6, but more like a 7591, hence the smoother/softer distortion. For EL34s, Tesla Black Eagles, RFTs, Seimens, XF2 Mullards and their closest clone =C= SED EL34, as well, the Shuagang Chinese EL34s are good. Smoothness is in the ear of the beholder.

Aged iron will sound different for sure as magnetic properties change over time and usage. Most of the magic in amps reside in the transformers, particularly the OT. I wouldn't be surprised if your Dumble has an OT that has some Mojo in it.

What will sound best to you is pure subjective, so use the tubes that sound best to you.

[Chad]

When is someone going to get the clone thing RIGHT????

Tag with all due respect comparing a new amp( or one a few years old) to one that has 20 or so years on it...Not really a fair comparison..
of coarse they are going to be very different.. Especially when your talking about smooth......Age noticeably changes tone feel and character of an amp.. I can tell a difference when I use used 20 year old Fender Iron..I'll bet if you play some of the fine Dumble style amps built by some killer builders here give it some time I'll bet you'll have a different opinion..


Tony

I think the age thing is a bit over rated. personally I have had many amps that I used for long periods of time, then played others that were brand new, and sure, the older one feels a little squishier, but the tones are right in the ballpark. As a matter of fact, many times older amps even after being serviced can just sound old and kind of tired. Many times newer amps just sound fresher. The amp I am helping with will sound dead on with my 80s, and be brand new. If it does not, the amp and project will be scrapped. I think it can easily be done, and its an excuse guys use for not getting the tone correct in the first place.

As has been said before and in other post: components (resistors,caps,several other things) seem to differ in tolerance when age and heat is involve.So if that is the case would said amp be scraped 20,30 50 hours down the line if the sound is different?

[Tag]

Tag with all due respect comparing a new amp( or one a few years old) to one that has 20 or so years on it...Not really a fair comparison..
of coarse they are going to be very different.. Especially when your talking about smooth......Age noticeably changes tone feel and character of an amp.. I can tell a difference when I use used 20 year old Fender Iron..I'll bet if you play some of the fine Dumble style amps built by some killer builders here give it some time I'll bet you'll have a different opinion..


Tony

I think the age thing is a bit over rated. personally I have had many amps that I used for long periods of time, then played others that were brand new, and sure, the older one feels a little squishier, but the tones are right in the ballpark. As a matter of fact, many times older amps even after being serviced can just sound old and kind of tired. Many times newer amps just sound fresher. The amp I am helping with will sound dead on with my 80s, and be brand new. If it does not, the amp and project will be scrapped. I think it can easily be done, and its an excuse guys use for not getting the tone correct in the first place.

As has been said before and in other post: components (resistors,caps,several other things) seem to differ in tolerance when age and heat is involve.So if that is the case would said amp be scraped 20,30 50 hours down the line if the sound is different?

Hey Chad, no idea. I will give an example though. I have a HR Deville that sounds fantastic and I bought when they first came out years and years ago. Playing a buddies new one, there is very little difference between them. Not anymore than you would hear between 2 different new ones at the store for the most part, and thats INCLUDING speaker wear! This has happened to me with several amps including bassmans, Boogies, Marshalls and others. Some do seem to vary more than others, but my guy feeling is that when those same amps were new, they would have sounded pretty different as well. I KNOW things wear out and sound different, but IMO, just not as much as some people feel they do, or, my experiences just happen to be different.