Robben Ford used redknob Fender + 2 x Tubescreamer RI

[bluesfendermanblues]

Dear All,

I am a dedicated tube amp DIY aficionado and have build Soldano, Boogie, Marshall, Vox and Fender Clones over the years.

I am a seasoned player (44 years old) - been playin for more than 35 sommers and have heard a lot of great players over the year as well.

One of he greatest concerts I have attended was a Robben Ford (Roscoe Beck and Tom Breitlein) show here in Copenhagen back in the mid 90's.

The band was smokin' and it was one of those nights when the band and the audience just melted together into one rythmic and tonal body (in lack of a better description).

After the show I got up to the stage to check out RF's gear. I expected to se a D amplifier and jaw-to-the-floor realised that RF was playin a red knob Fender Twin reverb through a pedalboard consisting of two green Ibanez tubescreamer reissues plus a dunlop crome wah and an ernie ball volume pedal.

I tell you RF's was the best I ever heard, but he didnt play a D-amp, which I would have sworen by the sound heard on the PA.

What the moral of this story ? well, the ol' one that the star players sound is in hsi or her fingers an not in the gear!! Will this keep me from building amps an persuing great tone - No, not ever

[Luthierwnc]

Let's hope sphincters don't start clamping when the forum wakes up!

Skip

[Funkalicousgroove]

Thank you!! That's what I've been saying all along!! it's in the hands!!

[butwhatif]

I have friends that still think you can buy the sound, and a couple have spent 25 years trying. All the 'players' know that the sound is mostly in their hands. It's the last 10% of the puzzle that this forum is about.

[Guitarman18]

I know this argument has been raging probably since this forum began but my feelings are that it is true some players have more tone in their fingers than other. A perfect illustration of this was when I saw Robben Ford playing with Steve Travato at my music college back in '87/'88. Robben had turned up late in the afternoon for a concert/ seminar after having been in the studio recording some album ( 'Talk To Your Daughter'- some of you may have heard of it. ) He turned up with just his guitar and asked if any members of the student audience had 'a chorus pedal or something'. He then plugged into the colleges' battered Fender Twin that sounded real weak and nasty, as though the speaker had a hole in it and the filter caps were shot (at least this is how it had sounded when I had played it the day before). However when he played, he completely blew Steve Travato (who is an incredible player) out of the water. Robben's tone had great clarity and each note seemed to weigh about 100lbs, whilst Steve's tone was weak and piercing. What amp was Steve using...well a D*mble of course. ( admittedly he was using a Strat through it, but I presume he had had HAD tweak it with this in mind)

Having said all that, when I look for an amp, I go for an amp that 'feels' good in my fingers. Some amps make your guitar feel as though the strings are made of barbed wire and others make your strings 'feel' as though they are covered in horse manure. I want my strings to feel as though they have been bespokely crafted on the Rolls Royce production line. If it feels good to play, I play good. (well, better anyway!) I want the notes to be strong, responsive and 'juicy'.

So when people say 'tone is in the fingers' it's true, but you have to find the right amp for your own fingers also.

Hopefully some of you can relate to this, or maybe I just need to contact my local shrink.

[Funkalicousgroove]

You can buy the gear that makes the sound, but if your fingers don't make the sound as well it's kind of akin to buying an F1 racer and not knowing how to drive-

[ayan]

Hopefully some of can relate to this, or maybe I just need to contact my local shrink.

Well, just to throw some salt and pepper on this, I have a video of RF and Trovatto playing together at MIT like 20 years ago or more. RF was using an Esprit and Trovatto a beat up brown Strat. Both playing their individual Dumbles. Trovatto's sounded quite a bit better than Robben's... I recently heard that Robben regularly borrows other folks' DUmbles for recording purposes, and that Trovatto's is one of them. Another amp he borrows, of which there are pictures, is Jackson Browne's.

Best,

Gil

[ic-racer]

Hopefully some of can relate to this, or maybe I just need to contact my local shrink.

Well, just to throw some salt and pepper on this, I have a video of RF and Trovatto playing together at MIT like 20 years ago or more. RF was using an Esprit and Trovatto a beat up brown Strat. Both playing their individual Dumbles. Trovatto's sounded quite a bit better than Robben's... I recently heard that Robben regularly borrows other folks' DUmbles for recording purposes, and that Trovatto's is one of them. Another amp he borrows, of which there are pictures, is Jackson Browne's.

Best,

Gil

You can hear these guys playing Dumbles on a Musician's Institue play-along book/CD combo "Mastertrax Blues" c1994 ISBN 0-7604-0063-6

Credits indicate Robbin Ford played a Dumble Overdrive Special through a Marshall 4x12 cab with Celestion Vintage 30 speakers.

Steve Trovato played a Dumble Overdrive Special and a "'59 Fender Bassman reissue modified by Alexander Dumble"

[ic-racer]

I am a little surprised that this forum rarely addresses guitar issues. My mantra has always been that tone starts at the guitar level (well, after the fingers... ) If the guitar does not have a beautiful ringing/singing tone with it unplugged, your tone through the amp will be lacking. I spend a lot of time tweaking my guitars to try and eliminate the shakes/rattles/buzzes. One thing I have found, since using Dumble style amps, is that I can get a good tone without plucking real hard. This helps minimizes buzzing etc. on some of my guitars.

[pman]

it's in the fingers, it's in the amp. stop! you're both right! a great touch can make a mediocre amp sound better , and a great amp live up to it's full potential. and imo, the touch has to match to the amp. a friend of mine played thru my two rock and made it sound so terrible i had to play it myself when he left to make sure i still liked the amp. his touch did not mate well to that amp. the d- style amps need a light, dynamic touch. a heavy handed approach will not do it justice no matter how good the amp is. thats why some guys play them and hate them, and sound lousy on them. i'm sure that robben ford can make any amp respond to the limits of it's capacities, because he knows how to.

[tjauernig]

I believe the tone IS all the player. I've heard RF play through Dumbles, Fenders, red knob Fenders, Marshalls, etc. and it always sounds like RF. I've seen him use teles, Lp's, 335's, etc and it always sounds like RF. I've seen Eric Johnson plug into a Princeton with a LP and get his tone. I've seen Greg Koch make a tele sound like a LP and vice versa. It is the hands. The amp is the part of the equation that has to deliver what the player wants at that time. If the amp makes you want to play then it's right. I'm sure we've all had those days where your rig is magical, then a day later, in the same room, it sounds like butt. You check every connection, setting, and nothing has changed.........or has it. A guy like RF has precise technique that most of us don't. We, the mortals spend more time thinking about tone than playing. And that's fine too. I recently had the chance to play a real Dumble, and what I noticed about it was that without changing settings, that amp reacted more to how you play than any other I have played before. (the next closest is a Komet) There are so many amps that emulate D-amps, but the touch sensitivity is way lacking, and that's the part that lets the player shine. Just my opinion anyway.

[stelligan]

Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you............

Robben has a belly full o' bear.......

IMHO it's a combination of everything. Technique, tonal concept, time feel, repertoire, gear, attitude. Many players reach people for different reasons. Some folks are head bangers some are into "smooth jazz". Electric blues with some jazz mentality thrown in gets it for me. And Robben Ford is kind of the 3 King's meet Miles Davis halfway. I dig it. There is no doubt that the amp helps convey the message, but I would still get it with a Kalamazoo though an Alamo....

[bluesfendermanblues]

Sliding slightly off topic, sorry, but I got the ask you this....

... I recently had the chance to play a real Dumble, and what I noticed about it was that without changing settings, that amp reacted more to how you play than any other I have played before. (the next closest is a Komet) There are so many amps that emulate D-amps, but the touch sensitivity is way lacking, and that's the part that lets the player shine. Just my opinion anyway.

Did you play both channels ??
I played a Dumble once and found that the clean channel was on pair with a good fender black og brownface combo, but not superior IMHO. However, the OD was way more exiting with the touch fell of a good Mesa Boogie Mark I or II. What did you hear?

[tjauernig]

I'd agree with you on the clean channel. It's OK, but not the greatest I've ever heard. The OD is was the superior tone from that amp. I don't know as if I'd compare it directly with a Boogie, but I guess some of the midrange character is similar. I've had a bunch of Boogies, and as good as they do sound, they are a bit over compressed sounding. (but that's only my opinion) But again, there are many great recordings that were done with those things.

[Mondoslug]

On robbenford.com The Live From Italy "Prison Of Love" vid sounds pretty damn good to me. Looks like Red knobs or some type of Twin variation...the vid audio quality is a little squirrely but you can get the idea.