Fuchs Dumble Clone

[Richard1001]

i don't know how anyone can write by dumble if it's not a dumble. nothing positive here

I guess the same way, how you see 'Shelby Cobra' kit car replicas listed as "Shelby Cobra kit car replica" when they are sold, even though they weren't built by Carol Shelby. People in the automotive realm don't seem to get upset about it as long as they're honest about what it is.

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I think there is a difference between selling a ' Gibson replica guitar' (which looks and is build like a Gibson but does not have the Gibson name on it), or selling your own guitars with the Gibson name and logo on it.

I wonder if Andy would be ok with some Asian company producing and selling transistor guitar amps that say: 'by FUCHS' on it.

And when Andy would complain about it, they would justify this by saying: ' yea, but everybody can see it is obviously not a real FUCHS, so there is no problem'.

[talbany]

We got a courtesy cease and desist request from Fuchs because we used the abbreviation O.D.S when describing this amp. I cannot remember exactly how we worded it? I think it went something like an affordable O.D.S inspired design from the later H.R.M models (Something like that). We wanted to distinguish it from an earlier (Non HRM) model in our description, This was back in 2006/7 time frame.

https://www.vvtamps.com/portfolio/xmodel/

I don't know? our amp doesn't look like an Overdrive Supreme or an Overdrive Special and how someone could get them confused?.. We changed the wording to "D-Style" and complied with his request.

Tony

[Reeltarded]

Andy Fuchs is a monster and he must be stopped at any and all costs, as long as we all can agree on a place and time. Covered dish. I am bringing mac and cheese (my grandmother's recipe) if you bring cups or a case of cheap soda, you are the worst person alive. (After everyone residing in New Jersey at the time of reading this)

A couple of ground rules;

Andy can't participate in the group march against himself. He got away with it at Grey Pride. He's tricky.

MASKS ARE MANDATORY and must cover YOUR WHOLE FACE and NOT JUST YOUR NIPPLES

NO ANIME you freaks

How about next Thursday evening around 7?

[talbany]

A couple of ground rules;

Andy can't participate in the group march against himself. He got away with it at Grey Pride. He's tricky.

MASKS ARE MANDATORY and must cover YOUR WHOLE FACE and NOT JUST YOUR NIPPLES

NO ANIME you freaks

How about next Thursday evening around 7?

[FUCHSAUDIO]

We got a courtesy cease and desist request from Fuchs because we used the abbreviation O.D.S when describing this amp. I cannot remember exactly how we worded it? I think it went something like an affordable O.D.S inspired design from the later H.R.M models (Something like that). We wanted to distinguish it from an earlier (Non HRM) model in our description, This was back in 2006/7 time frame.

https://www.vvtamps.com/portfolio/xmodel/

I don't know? our amp doesn't look like an Overdrive Supreme or an Overdrive Special and how someone could get them confused?.. We changed the wording to "D-Style" and complied with his request.

Tony

Wow, I don't even remember this...lol. My trademark attorney can be a bit of a pittbull, that's for sure.

[Reeltarded]

This was also his paternity defense 37 times.

I am surprised Randall Smith hasn't patented Andy. I know Coke was modeling him for a new bottle shape before covid.

[Charlie Wilson]

We got a courtesy cease and desist request from Fuchs because we used the abbreviation O.D.S when describing this amp. I cannot remember exactly how we worded it? I think it went something like an affordable O.D.S inspired design from the later H.R.M models (Something like that). We wanted to distinguish it from an earlier (Non HRM) model in our description, This was back in 2006/7 time frame.

https://www.vvtamps.com/portfolio/xmodel/

I don't know? our amp doesn't look like an Overdrive Supreme or an Overdrive Special and how someone could get them confused?.. We changed the wording to "D-Style" and complied with his request.

Tony

Wow, I don't even remember this...lol. My trademark attorney can be a bit of a pittbull, that's for sure.

Lucky for you, Dumble's is not.
CW

[j0k3335]

...
I don't know? our amp doesn't look like an Overdrive Supreme or an Overdrive Special and how someone could get them confused?
...

Tony

"Gibson claimed that people at a dark concert venue would confuse the PRS Single Cut with its Les Paul when seen played on a smokey stage"

... so, may be " in a Dark concert venue, and a smokey stage" ... ...

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Lucky for you, Dumble's is not.
CW

I sleep really fine at night. It's been 20 + years and there are far more blatant near-letter perfect clones out there more deserving of his wrath, but there won't be.

Trust me: There are reasons he does what he does, and there are reasons there are things he won't or can't do as well. I've spoken to friends and former employees of his, there are legit reasons he rolls how he does.

[ChopSauce]

(Partly just) out of curiosity:

- was this kind of elusive allusions supposed to mean something to someone, beyond the fact that you know some guy?

[FUCHSAUDIO]

(Partly just) out of curiosity:

- was this kind of elusive allusions supposed to mean something to someone, beyond the fact that you know some guy?

No secret messages or mixed-meanings. He's a guy who rolls a certain way and that's it. He's never been legally confrontational nor do I expect that to change.
I'm not going to reveal any details about him that need not be shared.

[sds1]

(as Jelle pointed out)

Well to be fair, Jelle not exactly a layperson as he has made a business out of copying everything Dumble did down to a tee.

Except the name of course. Steal all IP but never the name, that is the line. For some.

[talbany]

In order to get it,you have to understand the times!

Back then a few years after this forum got up and running the O.D.S (not Overdrive Supreme) Dumble thing really got rolling. everyone would come here!
There was everything from exact replicas with the same style chassis,fonts, layout, most of the same parts (Except resistors).Then you had the companies that used the ODS (Not Overdrive Supreme) that used the design as a starting point and did things like added reverb, used a different chassis, went full PCB, and tweaked the design for a more modern sound or more user friendly, because let's face it the Overdrive Special is not (IMO) an all around general public type amp (Especially a Non HRM)..These builders could have very easily not attached the O.D.S stigma to their amps? At the time the Dumble thing was getting really popular and used the abbreviation to somehow distinguish the amp and to help sales

I can remember some EPIC arguments would break out here between builders that were in competition with each other they were very competitive and were ferocious about protecting their brand, Some even stopped posting here because of it. IMO this was a real loss to the forum as many of these guy's loved these amps knew their way around them and always shared anything they could to help out a newbie builder.


"That's all I got to say about that!"....Forrest Gump

Tony

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Agreed Tony:

Personally, I already had plenty of knowledge (as did others) before I got involved here. I'd been playing with tubes and amps since I was 12. I'd been in Dumbles in the past, long before coming here. I discovered this forum and enjoyed it. Sometimes you might see something here curiously interesting you hadn't seen before, which is cool, but I feel (for me at least) I have too much on my plate to spend a ton of time here. I wasn't afraid to share it when I felt I could help someone without crossing a line. Where it went sideways for me (and I think likely a few others) was when people like Nic (and others) came here on shopping sprees for circuits and designs. I was told that Nic actually asked Brandon for chassis drawing to 'build an amp for himself.." we know how that turned out.

I didn't (and still don't) mind helping people, but eventually you start walking a fine line between helping, and potentially giving away things you worked too hard to perfect. You don't know where a simple share might go. For example: One (active) builder here would E-mail me occasionally for tidbits of information and assistance. But it got to a point where it was downright ballsy and grew quite annoying. He actually started out as a friend, we met at an amp show, he was 'a fan', and then he went too far. I finally have to tell him "dude, you are a now officially a competitor, you can pay for my assistance or go away". He went away. No surprise, that now he's selling or attempting to sell (non-CE and non-RoHs certified) amps to international dealers and distributors and heavily discounting amps to steal customers. This is BS, by a paint by numbers guy who clones anything and everything he gets across his bench (or finds here) and basically never "designed" a thing, who wanted free assistance to "make my reverb killer like yours". Seriously ? How does a commercial builder really know where to draw the line ?

I don't really have as much time nor inclination to participate beyond an occasional stop-in here of late. Business is crazy-busy and my ops manager/attorney basically suggested to me I "dial it back". The liability of a commercial builder being accused of taking things off a forum or needing a forum to run their business, well, that's real.

Rant done. Don't hate on me.

[Smitty]

Seems like aesthtically accurate Dumble clones are acceptable now. Haters need not reply. I have respect for Andy and if he considers this acceptable then it probably is. Hoping he weighs in with his perspective.

I'd like to understand where the leaders in this community think the line-not-to-be-crossed is for this type build. If you are going to do this what are the do's and don'ts? I suspect that the distinction is made on the back panel with the serial number or something. I think the sentiment might be something like cloning high-dollar collector cars. A discriminating buyer will be encumbered to know the difference.

Andy, as the OP I may have brought some of this on. I tried to limit discussion the ethical concepts as you can see above. It wasn't to far into the thread when that request got some pushback

Does "Haters need not apply" mean if you don't agree with what is being said in this thread you don't get to have an opinion? Sorry this is an open forum and you don't get to decide that...
CW

While I think we made some good progress on establishing ethical limits, there was also a lot of judgment that flowed your way, which was expressly not my intent. I am sorry for the aggravation this has brought to you. I've learned my lesson and will try not to make the same mistake again. I will leave the community with this quote to consider:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

― Theodore Roosevelt