to HRM or not

[pman]

I can generalize, I've built a few of both now based on the schematics found on this forum and IME the properly tweaked non-HRM has more sustain on overdriven notes because it's more distorted. The HRM still has plenty of sustain but sings differently and never sounds as distorted. Both amps have the same amount of "compression" if you use the same powersupply and plate/cathode values. My definition of compression is note bloom. My definition of sustain is how long a note hangs with minimal or no vibrato to keep it alive. My definition of distortion as it relates to the Dclone is overdriven tube character but none of the clipping diode(fuzz face) sound.
If I could have only one it would be non-HRM. There is no substitute for the high you get when every note can sustain forever - it really is the "talent in a box" sound and if you play like I do you need all the help you can get....[/quote]
thank you for your clear explanation.

[pedro]

agreed,

to me the basic difference is this :

HRM - notes "bark" more when you dig in ( i.e. the dynamics result in that characteristic dumble lead "squawk"

Non-HRM - more liquid ( i.e. constant ) lead tone.
At mo I'm HRM and loving the dynamic "bark" on lead playing.

I'm building both though - just to be sure.

Rgds
Pete C

[bluesfendermanblues]

Just noticed on the LC amp pictures in the ol' post, that LC's amp is fitted with Xircom in the PI and that 1% is used through out the PI section.

Any thoughts on that??

[dogears]

They are not Xicon. WHen you see burgundy caps that resemble MPP in DUmbles, they are usually NTE Mylar caps. I have lots of close up pictures of many Dumbles and they are all NTE.

Just noticed on the LC amp pictures in the ol' post, that LC's amp is fitted with Xircom in the PI and that 1% is used through out the PI section.

Any thoughts on that??

[tubedogsmith]

What are these?

[dogears]

I have shots of a degooped MM tranny amp. The bass cap is one of these blue .1 caps. It says AE on it. I'll pull the pic when I get home....

[dogears]

Btw, a well built and tweaked Bluesmaster will absolutely sustain notes as good as a non HRM, when the boost is on. My two are sick and is easily my fave style circuit. Plus you get the HRM dynamics and texture.


Anyone in the Philly/NY area is welcome to come play the amps.

[bluesfendermanblues]

They are not Xicon. WHen you see burgundy caps that resemble MPP in DUmbles, they are usually NTE Mylar caps. I have lots of close up pictures of many Dumbles and they are all NTE.

Just noticed on the LC amp pictures in the ol' post, that LC's amp is fitted with Xircom in the PI and that 1% is used through out the PI section.

Any thoughts on that??

Thanks for info on the caps. How about the 1% resistors, is it really that important in the PI or just a matter of what HAD had in the component box on a particular day??

[stelligan]

To HRM or not? Easier to get a non-HRM built and sounding stellar. FWIW - A well tuned HRM is by far my preference - just quite a bit more involved in the tweaking phase. HRM is more stellar-er......

[greiswig]

(SNIP) just quite a bit more involved in the tweaking phase. HRM is more stellar-er......

Gawd, that's hard to believe...I've spent so much time in component swaps and tuning things like the treble bleed circuit in my non-HRM that I sometimes wonder if I'd have been better off just starting with an HRM that had the tweakability built in.

[stelligan]

(SNIP) just quite a bit more involved in the tweaking phase. HRM is more stellar-er......

Gawd, that's hard to believe...I've spent so much time in component swaps and tuning things like the treble bleed circuit in my non-HRM that I sometimes wonder if I'd have been better off just starting with an HRM that had the tweakability built in.

Could just be my experience with the single coil vs. humbucker thing. The HRM sounded good with 'buckers from the git.

[ayan]

Btw, a well built and tweaked Bluesmaster will absolutely sustain notes as good as a non HRM, when the boost is on. My two are sick and is easily my fave style circuit. Plus you get the HRM dynamics and texture.

You mean like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP5i-zmhhsw

IMNSHO, not a chance in the world. I can rationalize why that would (not) be the case too: the dip in mids in the BM due to the HRM(*). I have not heard either LC or RF -- or any other lesser beings, for that matter --coax any serious sustain out of their amps/any other HRM amps for years now. The above link shows Larry's super sustain period, and 80s RF clips (even the Montreux videos with Miles from 1986, where he used a Strat of all things) showcase the old Dumble's capabilities to generate what I call SUSTAIN.

If you make your BM sustain as much as you want it to/can, and then simply bypass the HRM, I know you will get... more sustain. Been there many times, been doing that for almost 10 years now. I will grant you that the BM can be tweaked to sound great in its own right, but to me it is not a sustain machine by any stretch of the imagination.

(*) Stock HRM, that is: .02(2), .02(2) uF middle and bass caps, etc. If you lower the mid cap to get rid of the frequency notch you may get as much sustain as if you lost the HRM board in the first place.

Gil

[dogears]

Good clip Gil!

Yeah, the (Bluesmaster) HRM does not sustain quite like that. But, it will sustain a note really well. With more harmonics on the edge.

The Bluesmaster on the clean side, with or without PAB, will out sustain a non HRM I believe.

Did you notice that?

[stelligan]

Totally agree with Gil on the sustain thing - in spades. A non HRM can be a theremin like sustain monster. Acoustic feedback in a semi-hollow like Larry's can not be discounted though. On the complexity of tone thing, or maybe just the what I am liking at the moment HRM is floating my boat. To each their own.

The Bluesmaster on the clean side, with or without PAB, will out sustain a non HRM I believe.

I agree here as well....although my first hand experience is with a skyliner.

[ayan]

Good clip Gil!

Yeah, the (Bluesmaster) HRM does not sustain quite like that. But, it will sustain a note really well. With more harmonics on the edge.

The Bluesmaster on the clean side, with or without PAB, will out sustain a non HRM I believe.

Did you notice that?

On the cleans, yes, I think the BM will outsustain the more constrained skyliner or classic. That comes as no surprise, I think, since the BM clean has way more gain on tap than any other voicing -- both in non PAB as well as in PAB mode. BM clean dimed and in PAB mode gets you well into AC/DC kind of crunch, for example.

Gil