added a clip of my HRM after some tweaks...

[Tonegeek]

The latest clip is the one that says "I need a drummer.."
Its got verb, dly in the loop and a bit of tube screamer added to the input for some clean boost.

http://www.freewebs.com/tonegeek/OD_S1a.htm

[mat]

The latest clip is the one that says "I need a drummer.."
Its got verb, dly in the loop and a bit of tube screamer added to the input for some clean boost.

http://www.freewebs.com/tonegeek/OD_S1a.htm

Cool singing lead tone Congrats for the tweaks I'm still tweaking

[Bob-I]

It's so much creamier now, amazing the difference little things can make. I love it.

[dogears]

Sounds great!!!

Must be cool tweaks!!!!

[mat]

Its got verb, dly in the loop

What unit(s) did You have in the loop ?

[Tonegeek]

What unit(s) did You have in the loop ?

It's a Boss GT-3 with a room verb and 340ms delay.

[mat]

What unit(s) did You have in the loop ?

It's a Boss GT-3 with a room verb and 340ms delay.

Ok, sound pretty darn good to me

Any chance to hear the amp without tubescreamer and drive and drive level knobs almost dimed ?

Thanks for the clips

[Sven]

Greetings,

It is raining here, today ... so, a bit of rain on this parade might not hurt, either ... dunno ...

Well, the way I look at it, is that it does not count if you use tube screamer or ANY pedal while recording the amp. Also, I really do not know the signal flow of the delay/reverb pedal you use, but if it is digital delay pedal and ... whatever ... if it is a SERIES (and it is, I think) FX LOOP, than what we are hearing is not the amplifier, but something like a signal chain, or whatever ... which makes up for a bit of disappointment in these quarters, if you don't mind me letting you know here about it ...

After all, with all that good vibe about Dumble amplifiers ... and than HAVING TO USE A BOOST PEDAL to get a good sound, whoa, that is disappointing to me, to tell you the truth. Let us hope we could figure out a way to make the amp sound better ... at least so that we get a good sound without stomp boxes as props (as a guitar player, during my pro days, I never used any pedals ... pedals were ¨forbidden¨, as well as tapping one's foot to keep the time, while playing ... believe it or not ...)

Although disappointing feeling about the pedal prevails, ss it is, on this clip, the signal chain sounds pretty decent, actually pretty good ... but, as stated above, it just is NOT a Dumble amplifier (clone) sound. That is some boost pedal plugged into an amp that needs ¨assitance¨ to sound good. Well, ....

By the way, what amplifier schematics/layout are we looking at here, if the amp owner could kindly comment? Is that HRM with 2x EL34? Is that ODS-101-HRM schematics from Hi-Gain? Just curious. If it is not for disclosure, OK, fine ... no problem. Just curious. Why? Because I am disappointed if the ODS-101-HRM needs a guitar stomp box to sound decent, that is why I am disappointed.

Take it easy ... it's just sometimes hard to keep one's mouth shut, I guess.

All the best,

Sven

[Bob-I]

Greetings,

It is raining here, today ... so, a bit of rain on this parade might not hurt, either ... dunno ...

Well, the way I look at it, is that it does not count if you use tube screamer or ANY pedal while recording the amp. Also, I really do not know the signal flow of the delay/reverb pedal you use, but if it is digital delay pedal and ... whatever ... if it is a SERIES (and it is, I think) FX LOOP, than what we are hearing is not the amplifier, but something like a signal chain, or whatever ... which makes up for a bit of disappointment in these quarters, if you don't mind me letting you know here about it ...

I'm gonna respectfully disagree. What I'm looking for is a complete guitar rig, effects, pedals et al. He posted a great clip including all the factors.

After all, with all that good vibe about Dumble amplifiers ... and than HAVING TO USE A BOOST PEDAL to get a good sound, whoa, that is disappointing to me, to tell you the truth. Let us hope we could figure out a way to make the amp sound better ... at least so that we get a good sound without stomp boxes as props (as a guitar player, during my pro days, I never used any pedals ... pedals were ¨forbidden¨, as well as tapping one's foot to keep the time, while playing ... believe it or not ...)

Everyone's entitled to his own opinion, no matter how wrong

The sheer number of pedals on the market, as well as the number in most guitar players signal chain show that you're opinion is the expeption not the rule.

That said for my own sound I use very little in the way of effects and pedals. I use a TS-9 and a Midiverb 3 to give me a bit more variety in sound.

Because I am disappointed if the ODS-101-HRM needs a guitar stomp box to sound decent, that is why I am disappointed.

I'd again respectfully disagree. The fact that these amps respond well to pedals is a big plus. I've played way too many rigs that can't accept an SS pedal in front of it, or a delay in the loop.

Take it easy ... it's just sometimes hard to keep one's mouth shut, I guess.

All the best,

Sven

You and me both Interesting discussion though.

Last week I jammed with a guitarist that was using about 5 pedals on a board into a new Mesa, don't remember the model, one of the new designs. He got some great tones from all of this, but he also said he had a Mesa Mk3 at home that sounded like garbage with the same pedals.

To pedal or not to pedal, that's the option.

[strat57]

Hmmm.... well guess this will definitely turn into a "opinion" thread! There is one thing very apparent with the clips posted.... the overall "players" tone you're trying to achieve. Personally I think your there. (And lets face it his early rigs were loaded with goodies including some in front of a Dumble.)

I do kinda agree with Sven though.... I much prefer to "milk" the tone out of an amp as opposed to dialing it in with stomp boxes. For that matter try a "modeling pedal" too.... Now don't get me wrong if that's the only way you can achieve your fav. players "tone" by all means shoot for the moon!

With that said.... I come on here to hear clips of "raw" amp. I'm looking to hear a great foundation to build on. Something that's going to help me achieve an improvement in MY tone. Not "clone" someone else's. (been there long ago) Besides, I'm pretty sure we all know that any of the ODS clones are a good foundation, but posting clips that pretty much emulate Mr. Johnson's tone just doesn't give a "fair" assessment of your build and any internal "tweaks" you've made.

I'm looking and listening for the subtle nuances from "cap" selection, tube choice, this transformer set vs that set..... not a moded TS-808 over a original Fuzz Face in the front end.

I can see "wetting" up a clip to make it more lively.... (reverb/delay) but loading a boost/distortion pedal in front doesn't show much other than as already expressed, your build is pedal "compatible". The bulk are if you just spend the extra time tweaking amp and stomp box controls for hours.

One things for sure you're more than in the ball park with the amp/pedal tones, but the part that's going to put you over the top won't come from the addition of a stomp box. It's the "tone" in the fingers!

I love the tone you've duplicated, but one question..... where's yours and just your amp build? Is that expecting too much on a forum of amp builders and good players too? No grief intended..... just my opinion!

Again I think you've "nailed" what you were looking for! What's next?

[Tonegeek]

I much prefer to "milk" the tone out of an amp as opposed to dialing it in with stomp boxes.

I agree that the amp should do most of the work, if possible. I also think there is some value in posting dry clips, but it would be much better if it was done scientifically, which we are not really doing here. Unless you also post a ton of data about your guitar, amp settings, tube types, voltages, make and value of every component, mic type and placement, etc., etc., then how does that help anyone, except in a very general way? I have posted dry in the past, but today I chose to post a clip that inspired me, only because I think it might inspire someone else. I don't really care if FX are involved or not. To me the ends justify the means. Now if I am working on a problem with the amp, or if someone asks for one, I might post a dry clip. And its not that I am down on dry. One of the best clips I have heard is the Moss D-lite clip ( http://adlibmusic.net/6V6_QUAD/moss1.mp3 ). If that clip had FX on it though, I would still be able to tell there was a great sounding amp behind it (even though it does not really sound like a Dumble to me). Of course some (maybe more than some) of it is the player... BTW, I almost consider humbucking pickups an effect (I am just kidding, but they do make life easier, right?) What's the difference between that and a little clean boost on a single coil?

I come on here to hear clips of "raw" amp. I'm looking to hear a great foundation to build on. Something that's going to help me achieve an improvement in MY tone. Not "clone" someone else's. (been there long ago) Besides, I'm pretty sure we all know that any of the ODS clones are a good foundation, but posting clips that pretty much emulate Mr. Johnson's tone just doesn't give a "fair" assessment of your build and any internal "tweaks" you've made.

So its OK to emulate Mr. Dumble but not Mr. Johnson (which was not really my intention with that clip, but thanks for the compliment)? This entire forum is about cloning sounds! Every other clip is about getting the "Robben" tone or the "Carlton" tone. I am just making a point that we are here because we want an amp to reproduce sounds we heard someone else produce. Your point of wanting to assess the builds is legitimate too. That however does not mean there is no value in posting clips that explore other possibilities. Hey if a dry clip will help you out then here it is - ( http://www.freewebs.com/tonegeek/v10PABbridgenoFX.mp3 ). It was recorded the same day as the one you heard earlier. NO FX although the D'lator is still in the circuit.

Having said all that- Is my amp sounding the best it can sound? Answer is probably not, except some days it does. I think there is more to be HAD (no pun intended) from this amp. The thing is, part of finding your own sound is in trying all the combinations. FX are part of the equation for me so even though the amp is not perfect, it may be perfect when it is seen in the wider context of the guitar, FX and speaker combination. Does that make sense? Something I have challenged myself with over the years is to ring out the best lead sound I can possibly get using SINGLE COIL PICKUPS. Part B to the challenge is to get the most variety of sounds out of a setup that only includes ONE AMP (unlike EJ), but any number of FX. As you can see, the guitar straight into the amp just isnt going to cut it for me, although there may be one killer trick pony there. Personally, I do want to create "my tone", but until that happens, I will settle for emulating people I admire - whether its their amp designs, their playing style or use of FX.

Any chance to hear the amp without tubescreamer and drive and drive level knobs almost dimed ?

Are you asking for a clip with those controls at max? It sounds terrible, trust me. Not to mention it will blow my 30 watters unless the volume is on 1 or less. I usually keep my Drive around 30-40% and level about 50%, volume at 50%-60%, this won't help you because I have to also consider the 2 D'lator levels which have an effect on the sound as well.

[heisthl]

I just listened to http://www.freewebs.com/tonegeek/v10PABbridgenoFX.mp3
being dry does help when critiquing an amp and I'm thinking the amp, although it sounds really good; may not have enough clean overtones. I'm of the opinion that the key to a "grail" OD sound for HRM and non-HRM alike is in the overtones that should be present in the clean sound. If you feel like experimenting try less filtering on the PS rail. If you're using Orange drops in the clean section try Xicon 630v MPPs. Other things (as stated several times before) Vishay/Dale RD series plate resistors and metal oxide Cathode resistors. Some say the signal path resistors should be all carbon types. Ceramic disc caps for the pf values (NO MICA). etc. Once you get the clean sound to have overtones like a bell, the OD has a lot more to work with and hopefully the one signature Dumble sound that no other amp can duplicate comes through.

[Normster]

So its OK to emulate Mr. Dumble but not Mr. Johnson (which was not really my intention with that clip, but thanks for the compliment)? This entire forum is about cloning sounds! Every other clip is about getting the "Robben" tone or the "Carlton" tone.

First thing that jumped out at me was the EJ tone! I don't care what kind of boxes you had in the signal chain, that was cool!!! As for assessing the tone of the amp...let's face it, that can only be done by playing it.

[strat57]

As for assessing the tone of the amp...let's face it, that can only be done by playing it.

That's for sure..... even though no two players will sound the same when plugged into the same amp. But I do believe certain aspects of an amps characteristic will shine through no matter what player is at the working end of the guitar. Note bloom, a smooth and silky overdriven tone, great chime & harmonics, and an amps ability to be touch sensitive..... all traits that can't be hidden by a particular player.

Unfortunately the same can't be said about adding boost/overdrive or distortion at an amps input. Adding those is usually done to mask an amps less than desirable traits.

Tonegeek.... I did listen to all of your clips and did like the first couple. Like I say though, it became very apparent your goal. By the time I got to the "tweaked" one it just sounded like the "boost" up front may have masked any internal tweaks you may have done. Hence my disappointment! Besides.... It's nice to hear an individuals playing as opposed to an emulation of something I can pull up on my iPod. I would rather hear your genuine talent on the amp you built.

Speaking of other clips on here though, I have asked for the particulars regarding the scientific aspect of what I've heard. It should go without saying that any clip posted here to demonstrate an amp build should include the basics of use from guitar to speaker. It's the only way to determine a base line when comparing one amp to another or sutle modifications to the same amp.

[mat]

Any chance to hear the amp without tubescreamer and drive and drive level knobs almost dimed ?

Are you asking for a clip with those controls at max? It sounds terrible, trust me. Not to mention it will blow my 30 watters unless the volume is on 1 or less. I usually keep my Drive around 30-40% and level about 50%, volume at 50%-60%, this won't help you because I have to also consider the 2 D'lator levels which have an effect on the sound as well.

I put the drive level usually at 8 or 9. I seem to get best results with my nonHRM and the new HRM in that way. The drive will be anywhere between 5 to 9 Yes, You are right the d-lator knobs affects a great deal to the sound also. Do You try to put them at unity gain or boost the signal a bit ?

Thanks for the dry clip also. I like it alot! Do You have a HB guitar ? I was a strat/tele/singlecoil -only fan for a long time but the dumbles turned me to HB guitars. I still love the sound of strat to dumble tho', it is just different thing than HB+dumble style amp. My dream (after I get my HRM ready) is to have a switch in the HRM to choose between optimal SC sound and optimal HB sound. More switches....

Thanks,