BobW wrote:"Seriously? Do you understand science?"
2 ambigious words here: Understand and Science. Can you be a little more specific?
You really need me to explain the differences between aluminum electrolytic capacitors and film?
This seems like something you could easily try out for yourself.
Parameters such as ESL, ESR, are clearly specified on some Electrolytics but not all, AND not all electrolytics are the same, parameter wise or sonically. Even more difficult to find are these parameters on most film, Poly? Mylar? BTW, which Film were you referring to? The data sheet parameters approach is the Science or engineering of it, but has NOTHING to do with what is sonically better (also subjective terms). So you have to trust your ears, and that is a subjective thing depending on who is listening. So please do explain the differences and the Science behind it all.
Like I said it can even affect the way an amp feels when playing.
Take the 5E3, that's a pretty loose amp, at least the one I played was.
That's low filtering.
One of these days I want to try some of those motor run caps but they may be too efficient for a lowly guitar amp.
I know the Hi Fi guys like them but they are amplifying the whole spectrum and they want bass.
Like I said it can even affect the way an amp feels when playing.
Take the 5E3, that's a pretty loose amp, at least the one I played was.
That's low filtering.
One of these days I want to try some of those motor run caps but they may be too efficient for a lowly guitar amp.
I know the Hi Fi guys like them but they are amplifying the whole spectrum and they want bass.
You are the winner.
If people can take a step back and read the op without frothing...the OP isn't stating that the Carr has the best cleans ever, so put down the pitchforks.
He's saying he likes the Carr sound/feel and wants to know the factors that contribute to it so that he could try replicating it in his amp.
Believing that the difference between a film power supply and an electro one is marketing is just plain wrong.
diagrammatiks wrote:
Believing that the difference between a film power supply and an electro one is marketing is just plain wrong.
You describe your experiences, for this community it has a lot more value than the " do I really have to explain" comments.
So what are you experiences between electrolytics and film caps in filter supply? Do you think the precision ps filtering is close to this? all the best, Erwin
I must say I am really surprised at the turn and tone of voice this thread has taken on. It's not what I'm used to on the amp garage. I am also very surprised that there are people here who think there is no difference between one cap and another, especially when we're talking about caps of entirely different materials and makes. So, let's just leave that for what it is.
I have tried experimenting with silver mica bright caps and it is a case in point. There is a vast difference between ceramic and silver mica bright Caps. I like the silver mica on the master volume, but not earlier in the chain. There, it is just too much, too harsh. However, the change the silver mica brought to the amp is the direction I am thinking of.
@erwin_ve, I really appreciate all your input and I look forward to tomorrow. My question is the same here as it is with the Dumbleator, I am looking for extra transparency, clarity and harmonic richness.
I have the 124 classic power supply, so no totem pole arrangement here. Maybe the Carr's Class A operation has something to do with it. I also like the Carr Viceroy cleans, which is an amp that is deeply biased in class A territory.
diagrammatiks wrote:
Believing that the difference between a film power supply and an electro one is marketing is just plain wrong.
You describe your experiences, for this community it has a lot more value than the " do I really have to explain" comments.
So what are you experiences between electrolytics and film caps in filter supply? Do you think the precision ps filtering is close to this? all the best, Erwin
No the precision ps is still an electro supply.
Look at what structo wrote. Now pretend you like a very fast and stiff amp.
That's how I feel.
the precision power supply is a bit of a misnomer. You introduce losses any time you put anything in series.
The only time 2 caps in series can equal the performance of one cap of similar construction is if both caps and the bleeding resistors are perfectly matched.
diagrammatiks wrote:
Believing that the difference between a film power supply and an electro one is marketing is just plain wrong.
You describe your experiences, for this community it has a lot more value than the " do I really have to explain" comments.
So what are you experiences between electrolytics and film caps in filter supply? Do you think the precision ps filtering is close to this? all the best, Erwin
No the precision ps is still an electro supply.
Look at what structo wrote. Now pretend you like a very fast and stiff amp.
That's how I feel.
the precision power supply is a bit of a misnomer. You introduce losses any time you put anything in series.
The only time 2 caps in series can equal the performance of one cap of similar construction is if both caps and the bleeding resistors are perfectly matched.
I do feel a big difference between precision ps filtering and traditional filtering despite your comment about losses. It feels faster to me; maybe a similar thing you experience with the Solen fast? Off course different But I'm interested in your experiences with those 2 different filtering. Maybe Joost can benefit from it.
erwin_ve wrote:
You describe your experiences, for this community it has a lot more value than the " do I really have to explain" comments.
So what are you experiences between electrolytics and film caps in filter supply? Do you think the precision ps filtering is close to this? all the best, Erwin
No the precision ps is still an electro supply.
Look at what structo wrote. Now pretend you like a very fast and stiff amp.
That's how I feel.
the precision power supply is a bit of a misnomer. You introduce losses any time you put anything in series.
The only time 2 caps in series can equal the performance of one cap of similar construction is if both caps and the bleeding resistors are perfectly matched.
I do feel a big difference between precision ps filtering and traditional filtering despite your comment about losses. It feels faster to me; maybe the same thing you experience a similar thing with the Solen fast? Off course different But I'm interested in your experiences with those 2 different filtering. Maybe Joost can benfit from it.
Look at Structo's comments.
Faster and stiffer.
It depends on whether you like that or not.
Since Joost is comparing against the Carr he obviously does.
Last edited by diagrammatiks on Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Since Joost is comparing against the Carr he obviously does.
You never tried precision PS did you? I never tried Solen's; I will try them in a future built.
You do not believe that I have ever put electros in series?
have you compared the series electro and single electro arrangement with the same caps?
the PS supply in the d schematics use different capacitors then the regular supply. 2 250v or 350v radial capacitors in series is not the same as a single 500v capacitor.
If you have 2 500v capacitors that series to 22uf and 1 22uf capacitor. The single will be "faster" then the series.
In fact if we assume a b+ of 460, a single 500v cap is operating over 90 percent of its voltage max.
2 385 caps is only hitting 60 percent. Definitely precision...maybe cool runnings.
The more I think about it the more I'm pretty sure what you think your comparing isn't comparabe in anyway.
Since Joost is comparing against the Carr he obviously does.
You never tried precision PS did you? I never tried Solen's; I will try them in a future built.
You do not believe that I have ever put electros in series?
have you compared the series electro and single electro arrangement with the same caps?
the PS supply in the d schematics use different capacitors then the regular supply. 2 250v or 350v radial capacitors in series is not the same as a single 500v capacitor.
If you have 2 500v capacitors that series to 22uf and 1 22uf capacitor. The single will be "faster" then the series.
Yes built both with single nodes and series nodes. However I double the capacitance of the series cap. 2x47uF equals more or less the single 22uF cap.fe. And I'm not talking about just the B1 node. I'm talking about all the nodes having precision filtering(series as you call it). Well, let's say I have different experiences as you have. No offense.
erwin_ve wrote:You never tried precision PS did you? I never tried Solen's; I will try them in a future built.
You do not believe that I have ever put electros in series?
have you compared the series electro and single electro arrangement with the same caps?
the PS supply in the d schematics use different capacitors then the regular supply. 2 250v or 350v radial capacitors in series is not the same as a single 500v capacitor.
If you have 2 500v capacitors that series to 22uf and 1 22uf capacitor. The single will be "faster" then the series.
Yes built both with single nodes and series nodes. However I double the capacitance of the series cap. 2x47uF equals more or less the single 22uF cap.fe. And I'm not talking about just the B1 node. I'm talking about all the nodes having precision filtering(series as you call it). Well, let's say I have different experiences as you have. No offense.
If you read what I wrote originally I never said that the series arrangement could not be stiffer then a single cap. All I said was that it's not technically more precise.
There are other considerations such as voltage and operating stress that will contribute to the differences. Again, not the dictionary definition of precision as I understand it.
However, as I said above it's hard to qualify what's directly being compared.
I'm quite willing to admit that if you look at the power supplies drawn in the popular layouts of say this guy...
versus ... well I could have sworn that there was a layout with a single 100uf 500 or 600vdc cap as the first reservoir
that the 1st would be the stiffest followed by the others. maybe 3 and then 2?
However, I'd think that if you got caps from the same series and took a b+ that was safe for all of them and ran a 500vdc cap, 2 250vdc in series and 4 250vdcs in series parallel.
the series parallel would be the stiffest followed by the 500vdc followed by the 250vdc.
But I'm interested in your experiences with those 2 different filtering. Maybe Joost can benefit from it.