ceriatone releasing an SSS apparently

[musicmaddness2011]

Okay,
So then this begs some pondering:

First the premise that:
1. He said he was making the #2 version, so then no post PI Driver tube needed.

Following from that, some conclusions (let me know if you agree/disagree and where/why you draw that conclusion):

2. Now it is off this amp (and #4) that the two rock sterling sig is essentially built around. It would logically follow then that the sterling has no post PI Driver tube either (although i have no evidence or knowledge of that amps design).

2.5: on a side note, i recall brandon saying somewhere that #2 specifically is a very strange 'beast', with a whole bunch of crap going on - so although the green one is an SSS, the insides of #2 i reckon would be different (if not lemme know).

3. Furthermore the mayer sig, and classic reverb would be likewise.

4. all these amps in no way to me sound like the clean channel of an ods

5. you could say that the ceriatone will then sound something like all those Two Rock amps, (except the Sterling which uses NOS parts)

6. Im sure that when he releases it, he wouldnt do so if people took one look at the schem and just said 'this is a clean ods with reverb' - that wouldnt be great for him

7. Jelle, im not sure which SSS you have knowledge of, but they are all different. You yourself said you played this one... did it SOUND like an ODS circuit?

i guess it will sound somewhat like this in the end
(only clip i know of just the SSS, although he is driving it with some pedals):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g7J9q8ePkg
combined with a little bit of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgxwOylAFjo



But at the end of the day, when the amp and schematics come out - at least we will have SOMETHING further to go on.

[boldaslove6789]

3. Furthermore the mayer sig, and classic reverb would be likewise.

The Mayer Sig and Classic Reverb both have a Post Pi CF Driver tube

[musicmaddness2011]

3. Furthermore the mayer sig, and classic reverb would be likewise.

The Mayer Sig and Classic Reverb both have a Post Pi CF Driver tube

Sweet, thanks for clearing up

[musicmaddness2011]

For what its worth:

Uploaded by 'dr. who' Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:04 am:

Internal Shots of Sterling

https://tubeamparchive.com/download/file.php?id=2608
https://tubeamparchive.com/download/file.php?id=2613
https://tubeamparchive.com/download/file.php?id=2607

Attached a shot of the 'SSS':

peace,
mm.

[Max]

Isn't the amp whatever HAD wanted it to be though?

It does say SSS right on the front.

As this forum has said countless times, there is no single SSS design, they were all different. And like all HAD amps each circuit is essentially a "prototype" for the ultimate Dumble amp.

I'm not trying to defend Ceriatone here or anything just wondering how now at this moment in time it's coming up that an amp labelled SSS that has had internal pictures circulating for a while is now consider to not be a SSS.

With, I admit, a lot of simplification:

If our prejudices meet facts that seem to be in disaccord with our prejudices, we humans seem to have a strong tendency to just ignore these facts instead of saying farewell to our prejudices :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjz16xjeBAA

Cheers,

Max

[musicmaddness2011]

Hahaha Max

As brandon said on the sss #2 : "It's basically an ODS clean side with reverb and an additional pair of tone controls after the reverb recovery. the amp WILL NOT overdrive at any volume, just LOUD clean "

So not surprising it looks like an ods...

[sonicmojo]

Hahaha Max

As brandon said on the sss #2 : "It's basically an ODS clean side with reverb and an additional pair of tone controls after the reverb recovery. the amp WILL NOT overdrive at any volume, just LOUD clean "

So not surprising it looks like an ods...

Okay, I have to raise a question since the blanket statement about no overdrive at any volume bugs me. I admit I have not played an SSS or other "similar" design with massive headroom like this but I have played my Dumble clones.

How much does the guitar and what you feed the amp play into the equation? I mean, if you play a Strat like SRV or Mayer, I get it. But what about a Les Paul with some hotter Burstbuckers or a guitar with P90s?

[ecisthebest]

any preamp can clip. as long as there is a huge sound presented at the grid.

but if the preamp doesn't clip, you can just limit the signal going into the output tube grid (resistor in series with the master volume) so with the master full, it's actually not full volume. then the power amp will never clip.

[LeftyStrat]

With, I admit, a lot of simplification:

If our prejudices meet facts that seem to be in disaccord with our prejudices, we humans seem to have a strong tendency to just ignore these facts instead of saying farewell to our prejudices :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjz16xjeBAA

Cheers,

Max

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTwV3vG73cU

Max, sometimes I think you are Alexander just fucking with us.

[Max]

Hahaha Max

As brandon said on the sss #2 : "It's basically an ODS clean side with reverb and an additional pair of tone controls after the reverb recovery. the amp WILL NOT overdrive at any volume, just LOUD clean "

So not surprising it looks like an ods...

Okay, I have to raise a question since the blanket statement about no overdrive at any volume bugs me. I admit I have not played an SSS or other "similar" design with massive headroom like this but I have played my Dumble clones.

How much does the guitar and what you feed the amp play into the equation? I mean, if you play a Strat like SRV or Mayer, I get it. But what about a Les Paul with some hotter Burstbuckers or a guitar with P90s?

AFAIK all SSSs weren't built by Albus Dumbledore but by Alexander Dumble. So they are IMO subject to the laws of physics. So if and when some member of the SSS family does distort, depends IMO on the usual stuff it always depends on in a tube amp: the input signal and the design and structure of the preamp and power amp of this family member.

The rumor, that SSSs, Winterlands, Dumblelands and Odysseys etc. with a separate driver tube generally never clip and distort, in a technical sense and in an audible sense, is - at least based on my personal perception when playing these amps - just one more "Dumble fairy tale". But let's perhaps read at first what Alexander Dumble once told about this:

Guitar Player:
"Stevie Ray Vaughan calls his Steel-String singer the "King Tone Consoul."

Alexander Dumble:
"There are some different things about Stevie's. His is set up more like a bass amp, modified to accommodate the guitar range. It's not the usual lead guitar "Singer" approach. One thing he liked was that he could turn the volume control all the way up and it didn't distort--it just got louder. He does make it distort sometimes because he has about 50 megatons of pressure when he attacks the strings [laughs]. He gets an incredible amount of signal out of his guitar, and most amplifiers can't take it. He did his first album with a bass amp I'd made for Jackson Browne."

So according to Alexander Dumble even SRV’s SSS, that was built with a lot of headroom and a Dumbleland Special 150W with a 12AU7 inverter and 12BH7 driver in mind, could be driven into distortion.

But perhaps you can just judge with your own ears if it's true, that all original Dumble amps with separate inverter and driver tubes never distort. Here’s a short clip of a ‘62 strat with usual ‘62 pickups played straight into a Dumbleland Special 150W with a 12AU7 inverter and a 12BH7 driver and with the input volume set to its highest position. So you can judge yourself if you perceive "distortion" in this clip or not. The ambience was added by the mastering software as this Dumbleland wasn't equipped with a reverb circuit.

Cheers,

Max

[boldaslove6789]

As always Great Clip Max!

Max,

Was the DumbleLand in the above clip made by HAD to be used with a Guitar or Bass?

Thanx!

[LeftyStrat]

Max, sometimes I think you are Alexander just fucking with us.

So what part of the world do you live in?

[Max]

Was the DumbleLand in the above clip made by HAD to be used with a Guitar or Bass?

Greg, I don’t "know" this in the sense, that Alexander Dumble or the musician who ordered this amp did tell me the answer to your question.

But judging by its tone and its features (internal trim pot to - AFAIR - adjust the gain and to fine tune the Q of the filter stage to some extent, both filters with an "off" position, "high" filter with three (of 11) positions to attenuate some high frequencies and to accentuate some mid frequencies, AFAIR a preamp with a bit less local NFB than some other Dumblelands I know etc.) it was perhaps built for guitar - or perhaps to be multifunctional or as versatile as possible? But this is just frenzied speculation.

Here are some more details I posted concerning this Dumbleland clip when I posted it for the first time: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 484#130484

For those here interested in Dumblelands and Singers I've attached a picture of a stack of Dumbleland Special #009 (7 filter positions - and not the one used for this clip!) on top of an early Dumble 4x12 cabinet.

picture source and some more pictures of this stack: http://ameblo.jp/howlguitars/entry-10812896064.html

Have fun!

Max

[67plexi]

Thank you MAX for your contributions’ always fine bits of information.
As far as the SSS or Dumbleland are concerned the amp is part of the equation.
You have to have a great speaker cabinet also. What do you think EMS will charge?
For a 4 x 12” speaker cabinet loaded with EVM12L with a flight case from Malaysia.

Steve.

[Max]

As brandon said on the sss #2 : "It's basically an ODS clean side with reverb and an additional pair of tone controls after the reverb recovery. the amp WILL NOT overdrive at any volume, just LOUD clean"

Are you sure that Brandon said "after the reverb recovery"? I ask, because here https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?p=59924#59924 he says something different: "The Hi-Lo filters are like tone controls after the EQ Recovery stage." And I'm rather sure that "EQ Recovery stage" refers to the "Recovery stage" after the three EQ switches and the treble, middle and bass pots.

And after this "EQ Recovery stage" AFAIR all the SSSs I’m familiar with have at least one more gain stage related to their filter circuits. And AFAIK the signal always has to pass through this further gain stage/s related to the filter circuits – AFAIK even when the filters are in their "off" positions (if both filters have an "off" position, what AFAIK isn't often the case). So I have strong doubts, that the individual version of the filter circuit you’ll find in an individual specimen of a SSS doesn’t have an important influence on the timbre and feel of this individual member of the SSS family.

So not surprising it... [Max: SSS #002]... looks like an ods...

I've attached a picture of Jackson Browne's/John Mayer's SSS #002. Picture source: somewhere in the www (I did forget it).

And I’ve attached two pictures of David Lindley’s SSS 100W #003 (7 filter positions) with separate inverter and driver tubes. So if you find some clips of SSS #003 you could perhaps compare the timbre of SSS #003 with a separate driver tube with the timbre of #SSS #004 without such a separate driver tube. Picture source: http://www.roblivesey.com/dumble/

And here you’ll find some more MP3 clips of SSS #004:

Don Grosh ElectraJet > Vintage TS-808 (melody/solo) > Dumble Steel String Singer > Aracom Attenuator for 4>16 ohm conversion > Vocal Booth VB Amp iso booth > Avatar 1x12 open back cab loaded with a Scumback M75-HP-LHDC > Royer 121 > Avalon M5 mic pre > Pro Tools...: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpo ... stcount=97

Epiphone Riviera > Dumble Steel String Singer > Aracom Attenuator for 4>16 ohm conversion > Vocal Booth VB Amp iso booth > Avatar 1x12 open back cab loaded with a Scumback M75-HP-LHDC > Royer 121 > Avalon M5 mic pre > Pro Tools...: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpo ... tcount=102

Critter's G&L Will Ray Signature Model > Dumble Steel String Singer (FET input!!!) > Aracom Attenuator for 4>16 ohm conversion > VocalBooth VB Amp iso booth > Avatar 1x12 open back cab loaded with a Scumback M75-HP-LHDC > Royer 121 > Avalon M5 mic pre > Pro Tools...: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpo ... tcount=105

Critter's Ibanez JEM 7VWh > Dumble Steel String Singer > Eventide Time Factor in loop > Aracom Attenuator for 4>16 ohm conversion > VocalBooth VB Amp iso booth > Avatar 1x12 open back cab loaded with a Scumback M75-HP-LHDC > Royer 121 > Avalon M5 mic pre > Pro Tools...: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpo ... tcount=108

Critter's Ibanez JEM 7VWh > Dumble Steel String Singer > Eventide Time Factor in loop > Aracom Attenuator for 4>16 ohm conversion > VocalBooth VB Amp iso booth > Avatar 1x12 open back cab loaded with a Scumback M75-HP-LHDC > Royer 121 > Avalon M5 mic pre > Pro Tools...: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpo ... tcount=113

Don Grosh ElectraJet > Joe Satriani's Fulltone Deja'Vibe > AnalogMan KOT > Vox Time Machine > Dumble Steel String Singer > Eventide Time Factor in loop > Aracom Attenuator for 4>16 ohm conversion > VocalBooth VB Amp iso booth > Avatar 1x12 open back cab loaded with a Scumback M75-HP-LHDC > Royer 121 > Avalon M5 mic pre > Pro Tools...: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpo ... tcount=114

You have to have a great speaker cabinet also. What do you think EMS will charge? For a 4 x 12” speaker cabinet loaded with EVM12L with a flight case from Malaysia.

Steve, I’m sorry, but I don’t know this. But probably you can find the answer to your question somewhere in the internet.

Cheers,

Max