Speaker test clip / another clip added

[Bob-I]

I decided to record clips using every speaker in my little room. I described the clips, played everything in the key of A and used the same guitar, mike and amp all throughout.

The one variable I haven't been able to fix yet is that crummy Crate combo cabinet I have one speaker in, sounds like garbage!!. It's the cab not the speaker as every speaker and amp I've tried sounds crummy too.

I have....

Eminence Red White and Blues closed back 1x12
EVM15 closed back 1x15
Eminence Tonkers open back 2x12 Peavey Combo cab
Eminence Swamp Thank 1x12 Crate combo cabinet (terrible cabinet, kills the tone of every speaker in it, sorry)
Celestion G12H80 in a 2x12 with a small opening in the back.

http://www.patmedia.net/bob-ingram/DClo ... erTest.mp3

Comments?


EDIT:

That Swamp Thang sounded so bad in that cabinet I just had to move it to get a fair test. It's now in the 1x12" closed back for comparison. Listen against the RW&B, same cabinet, same mike position, slightly different settings to bring out the best in the speaker.

http://www.patmedia.net/bob-ingram/DClo ... hang_2.mp3

[stompjunkie]

I really like that evm15 more than the rest (though they are nice too).... I was afraid of that....why do I always like really big heavy gear......

[strat57]

Bob, I gotta tell ya..... the EVM-15 brings out that Dumble quality to me. My next choice would be the Celestion G12H80..... But I wonder if that would improve some if it was in a closed cabinet!?

I just love that "big" bottom with the EVM-15 though! Sounds great!

I was hoping for a touch more note "bloom & sing" though! Thanks for taking the time to give us a taste of the different speaker combinations. Was this done with a D-Lite or ODS clone?

[Chad]

That was some nice sounds and wonderfull playing Bob!! I also like the EVM-15 but I think the Tonker's sound very nice too. I love the style your playing as opposed to the jazz style I here most here with the dumble clones (I'm not to big of a jazz fan,My opinion only of coarse) I have built 3 ODS, 2-HRM and I have a little more insight on other speakers now Thanks to you.Again thanks for the clip's Bob. Chad

[Bob-I]

For some reason I just can't find the "bloom" with this amp. I'm not sure what's missing but it's got the basic tone quality but not the bloom.

I agree, that EVM is excellent, the G12H80's are also great.

[heisthl]

Less filter - no choke - tweaked NFB = bloom But you knew that. In fact the filtering is tricky, I was using 120UF in my latest project (hi because of mis-diagnosed hum problem) and tried 40, 60 and then 80uF. The 80 uF had more overtones and bloom than lesser or greater values. This must be part of "tweaking to the iron".

[Bob-I]

Less filter - no choke - tweaked NFB = bloom But you knew that. In fact the filtering is tricky, I was using 120UF in my latest project (hi because of mis-diagnosed hum problem) and tried 40, 60 and then 80uF. The 80 uF had more overtones and bloom than lesser or greater values. This must be part of "tweaking to the iron".

I have 50uF on the first filter, no chokde, no screen filter since it's UL and 20uF on all the other stages. I'll play with the NFB a bit again.

[tonelab2]

Wow such contrast in speakers and cabs, thanks for sharing.

[Sven]

Greetings,

On another amp building forum, that I have left, I was recently subjected to a pathetic ¨lynching mob¨ treatment, just after I told those people some truths ... as an Electrical Engineer -- for example, that the openings should not be made on top of amplifier heads, since that is dangerous (not as much as sticking forks in toasters, but in case of spilled liquids ...) and also not needed since the cooling of the amp is provided totally sufficiently by back openings, and in that case ALSO by front openings on the amp head -- than as a sound engineer and a musician ... still, I shall make that ¨risky move¨ to tell my truthful opinion here, in case someone cares, in case the amp owner does not object:

First, never mind the speaker(s) - it is the amp! Yes, one could look at the speakers, but here the amp is not really ¨delivering the goods¨. I really find that amp to sound too ¨fuzzy¨ often ... I dunno ... it sounds like transistor pedal almost ... it is hard to explain quickly ...

So, for the sake of reference, at least in this realm, kindly check out the excellent sound clip on another thread by ¨Mat¨. The clip is named ¨sloppy 96¨ and the thread is titled ¨I borrowed a decent mic¨.

The above comment about this amp-speaker test is about the first recording (this morning). Second recording is definitely better, and the best sound (IMO, if someone needs that ¨disclaimer¨) is the very last segment/speaker. Needless to say, this last sound, or previous sound as well as ANY sound(s) is(are) good for ¨something, someone¨, in certain mix(es), in certain production(s) and such. However, the classy quality is just really not shining ... not yet.

Yes, I am also a guitar player, sound engineer, etc. I would like to know which schematics-layout is used by ¨Mat¨ for his amp ... if I get a personal message with schematics and layout that would save me a lot of time and experimentation efforts ... I would be delighted ... if not, well, ...


All the best,

Sven

[stelligan]

Thanks Bob!!!
Really appreciate all the hard work. My favs were: RWB's then new Swamp Thang clips. I am finding a little "tubbiness" in the mids of my RWB and get a hint of it in your clips too. Nice sounding amp and playing! I would love to hear more clean clips. Going through speaker trials myself with a 50 watt amp. Some clips of it are also in the dumble files section. Just wish I had the luxury of multiple cabs and more speakers. My experience has been that when I like a speaker in my studio room with my ears- then mic it with a 57 straight into my computer for "clips" - my impressions are totally different. For "real" recording projects I use a 57 or similar dynamic mic at the cab and a nice condenser or 2 in the room plus some EQ... I am really struggling with the methodology for my speaker selection. Our ears should respond close to the same in the room with the amp - then listening back in phones or through monitors. However, the SPL in the live room, the choice of cab, the choice of mic, the choice of listening device, listening position while playing, etc. all enter into the picture. Whew! That said, I have begun to trust my ears while I am playing my guitar for the decision instead of the 57 into computer thang. It's all about ME! I decided to pick my speaker based on how I like it hitting my lumbar spine from 4 to 7 feet while I am winking at a cutie half my age and hoping the sound man/engineer is making it sound as good as it does to me!

Have tried and liked in this order:

Stock Eminence from MusicMan RD-50 - broke in to say the least.. full range and mellow. Wish I knew which recent model would be most like it.

Red White and Blues - in now and liking it better the longer it's in. A little mid heavy.

Cannibis Rex - extremely close second but, doesn't hold up as well at high SPL. More flat in mids but, a hair darker.

EV 12L - LOVE the tonality but, accentuated the rasp in OD + PAB - Me thinks it's old & frail.....


P.S. I'm with Sven in REALLY diggin' the sound of Mat's amp.......

[Bob-I]

Greetings,
First, never mind the speaker(s) - it is the amp! Yes, one could look at the speakers, but here the amp is not really ¨delivering the goods¨. I really find that amp to sound too ¨fuzzy¨ often ... I dunno ... it sounds like transistor pedal almost ... it is hard to explain quickly ...

However, the classy quality is just really not shining ... not yet.

Sven,

Sorry to hear some folks have taken offence to your aggresive honesty. I've been known to burn bridges that way too, but I won't hold anything against you here!! Honesty in expressing opinions is welcome, and I have the right to agree or disagree.

In this case I'm in the middle. I agree that this amp isn't the golden tone that you've heard from other amps here but it's not as bad as you describe, especally listening directly.

My goal with this amp was to produce a very inexpensive Dumble like amp from an ebay donor. It was fun and I'll most likely sell this to a friend as a backup amp.

So the goal of this thread was to compare speakers, not assess the amp. So let's get back on topic.

Thx

[Bob-I]

Thanks Bob!!!
Really appreciate all the hard work. My favs were: RWB's then new Swamp Thang clips. I am finding a little "tubbiness" in the mids of my RWB and get a hint of it in your clips too.

I agree. My favorite right now is the EVM15.

Nice sounding amp and playing!

Well, I appreciate the comment, but I don't know that I feel as good about this. I fell and sprained my left wrist the other day and I'm playing with a wrist brace on. I have a reach of about 3 frets and no strength. The amp is not the best effort, but it is the cheepest .

I would love to hear more clean clips.

Me too. Since most folks seem to think of Dumble for the ODS section I started there. I'll record some clean in a week or so. It's a fun exercise.

My experience has been that when I like a speaker in my studio room with my ears- then mic it with a 57 straight into my computer for "clips" - my impressions are totally different.

Me too. I adjusted mike position several times to minimize this issue, but still there's no way to remove it. The goal here is to listen to the DIFFERENCE and not the absolute tone. In any case it's the best we can do over the internet.

[dogears]

Bob,

Please axe the UL. Convert to regular screen supply ASAP.

[Bob-I]

Bob,

Please axe the UL. Convert to regular screen supply ASAP.

I actually have 2 of these amps, one is UL one is not.

[fabiomayo]

Thanks, Bob-I.

The bottom on the 15" is incredible! Even so, I think i like the RW&B best...

Very well done clips. Great playing! Thanks!